Transcript

Taylor: Hey, everyone. So as you know, the first episode of Loki comes out next week on Wednesday, June 9th. So we thought this was a great time to chat a little bit about what we think might happen, and what the show might be about because honestly, it’s a lot. So we’re going to try to tackle some of our thoughts on what to expect from Loki. Katie, did you want to start?

Katie: Well, I just want to start by saying I think Loki’s difficult to think about in any way of what might happen. Only because, you know, we’re, we’re crossing multiverses, we’re crossing timelines, we’re not really in our MCU timeline, to begin with. So I definitely think it’s a hard show to look at the trailer and be able to say, I kind of know where this is going to go because I have no clue where the show is about to go. So I definitely think that that needs to be said before we get into anything that we discussed because quite honestly, I have no clue what’s going to happen. I don’t think many of you do. I don’t think Taylor has much that she’s going to think is going to happen. So we’re really going off of some crazy things we’ve seen in the trailer.

Taylor: I think it really reminds me a lot around the hype of Wandavision because that one was also very like heck? Like I think with Falcon and Winter Soldier. You and I, Katie, have talked about this a lot. Like it was very grounded in the MCU as we knew it. So there were a lot of stepping stones and foundations that we could build off of. But I think with shows like Loki and Wandavision, especially focusing on characters that have been really minor or side characters or, you know, sidekicks, if you will, to like major characters, like it’ll be interesting to see how they have them carry their own show and the storylines that they bring forward on.

Katie: Even just to say, Loki in our timeline is technically dead. You know, that’s a whole different kind of can of worms, if you will, that open because we have no clue what they’re going to be doing because as far as we know, Loki’s gone. So that is what, Infinity War, 5 minutes in. I hope you watched it, because I did spoil that for you.

Taylor: But you had like three years.

Katie: You had plenty of time to avoid spoilers. So I hope I didn’t just do anything for anyone. But no, I agree when you say it being similar to Wandavision because you see the trailer and you’re like, okay, she was going through different time periods, but why is Vision back? How did this happen? So I think the same is going for Loki, especially with the whole time travel thing. We definitely see him in a lot of different time eras and I think we see him at one point in the future, or at least in a different universe version of the future. So I definitely think, you know, there’s so much going on. It’s really hard to say what one track of the show is going to be.

Taylor: Yeah, I can say one thing that I really hope, so I’m a stickler for continuity. It’s like if a show does not have continuity, it really just like sits wrong with me. And for me, it’s the whole MCU. Like, continuity errors really, really bother me. So I think the biggest continuity error ever coming out of the Infinity War kind of era of the MCU and like that kind of chapter that we’ve closed is the whole thing with Steve. Like let’s put it all out there, guys.

Katie: Don’t get me started with my issues with Steve’s ending.

Taylor: I know this is a very divisive topic, so we’re not going to get into our opinion about that cause that’s a whole nother episode. But I think regardless of where you stand…

Katie: The whole time travel thing in Endgame was interesting in itself. It was a little confusing and then…

Taylor: It created some plot holes. Let’s put it out there.

Katie: …And then with what happened with Steve going back in time didn’t quite make sense in the time kind of part of it, considering he was putting the stones back yet, he essentially made his own timeline. It’s a whole thing and I think it’s hard to I think that in itself cause we’ve got directors saying one thing, writers saying another thing. So no one really knows what the whole like point like what’s where it’s going and what happened. So I think that’s hard. And now we’re going to be addressing some of the issue of time travel.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think that’s my biggest hope is that we get some kind of closure or explanation related to Steve and what the heck Steve did and what are the actual ramifications. Because as of now, it’s kind of like Steve went back in time, it didn’t do anything. And like, here’s old Steve passing along the shield. But like based on what the Ancient One told Hulk, like, is that really what happened? Is he living in an alternate timeline like, give me some context here. Are we going to see Chris Evans and Steve Rogers and fixing what he may or may not have broken by saying, you know, back in time?

Katie: But I think that brings up where the whole Loki show comes in, because Loki in himself, by taking the Tesseract, did almost the same thing. Now he created his own new timeline, which is similar to what Steve did. And I think it’s interesting because we have the TVA that we’re seeing in the Loki trailer, they addressed Loki going through time, creating his own timeline, even though he kind of did it on accident. To be honest, he didn’t know it wasn’t actually his fault that someone else was tampering with time. I think it’s interesting, though, that they intersect him, but not Steve, even though I do understand Steve is going back through time. But why did they not intersect them to begin with when they were already taking the stones out of where they belong? So I think it’s a little weird.

Taylor: That’s why this argument could be made. It’s like, what is the lesser of two evils, right? Like Thanos wiped out half the universe. So I can see the TVA being like, well, you know, if they’re going to go back in time to find these stones, they’re not undoing what Thanos did, but they are going to take pieces out of time to be use in the present, to undo what is clearly like the most cataclysmic thing that has happened in the universe ever. And the idea that they would then put them back would mean that they should not have the kind of time variance that Loki creates by going kind of rogue.

Katie: But still then that brings up Steve stayed in the past.

Taylor: Oh. So that is kind of a pothole and I hope it’s addressed because I think not addressing that is just I mean, fans are going to wonder. So you have to you know, fans I think are so good about looking at things from every angle, right? So I get that as a writer, you can’t look at things from every angle. But that Steve discussion has been a strong point of discussion. It is still going on two years later. Right. You need to address it.

Katie: For a lot of different reasons. Obviously, as far as you know, the character development on one end and the actual time issue on the other. But like I said before, you know, we have different answers from different people. And it’s difficult because now if we’re seeing the Loki show come in, it’s supposed to hopefully fill in those plot holes. But the problem is, is will it? Because unfortunately, I feel like they’ve been avoiding giving us the correct answer to whatever happened with Steve. So I think it’s hard to sit here and confidently say the Loki show is going to do that. I think in and of itself is going to explore a lot of Loki’s background instead, which I obviously Loki is one of my favorite characters, one of my top four for sure. And I’m interested to see that. I just think that I would like, as you had said it, to finish what Endgame had started with time travel, because this is where time travel came from. You know, we saw it in Endgame.

Taylor: And I think this is a point and I am like the biggest fan of Kevin Feige as a visionary, like truly like I don’t believe that this universe would be nearly as successful if we had someone else. I mean, the man was looking 20 years in the future in 2008, like he had this I don’t want to say he had it all planned, but he had a clear vision and he was able to, through multiple directors and screenwriters and actors over the years, you know, bring that to life. So I think this is a place where I would like to see Kevin really step up and say, okay, so my writers of this movie say one thing and my directors say the other, but at the end of the day, I’m Mr. Creative Guy. And this is my decision and this is you know, this is the finality. This is the real answer to the MCU. We’re putting you know, we’re explaining it to the fans and we’re making that final point. I think at the end of the day, who is the most unifying figure? Obviously, it’s Stan. But in current day and in the direction of the MCU, it’s Kevin. And so Kevin has to be that end all, be all decision about what actually is happening and what the answer is to the time travel conundrum.

Katie: And that’s only the biggest issue right now is because we’re going to see it again. And Loki is going to honestly revolve around it. Obviously, we’ve seen this. We see him in the past in the future in with the TVA. You know, we’re going to be seeing him all over the place. And essentially, I’m assuming we’ll be seeing a lot of different versions of Loki, not just the one that we’re seeing from the 2012 timeline moving about, but I think we’re going to be seeing a lot of him interacting with himself or at least seeing himself in different timelines. I mean, to be fair, we see so many different clips in that trailer. We do not honestly know for a half of them if they’re actually our 2012 Loki, you know, the ones that we can confidently say most likely are the ones when he’s in the TVA or he’s wearing the TVA jacket. But besides that fact, we don’t know which ones are going to be actually our Loki or which ones are maybe him addressing a different Loki, you know, trying to fix a different alternate timeline or something’s going on. We see some pretty interesting things with a mirror in the one trailer that appears to me to probably be showing him many different versions of his story. So I think he’s going to be somehow working to be fixing them in some way, shape or form.

Taylor: I also think one aspect that could be interesting is knowing that we’ll be going back in time. Time always negates death, right? So I think you could have any one of a number of Avengers pop up in any number of cameos like he’s obviously in I think almost every trailer he gets sucked into a Bifrost. Well, so that means oh my gosh what’s his name? Idris Elba’s character.

Katie: Heimdall.

Taylor: Thank you. That means Heimdall is still alive then. Right?

Katie: Which is kind of an interesting thought for many reasons. First off, we want to talk about dead characters. Hello, Loki.

Taylor: Yeah, for sure.

Katie: I mean, we do at one point see that he’s being showed parts at least of his future. So I am to assume that he likely might find that he dies or is told he dies if he stays on a certain path. So I do think that might be part of the reason he decides to help the TVA is because if he…

Taylor: If he goes back, he dies.

Katie: Exactly. If he goes back to the 2012 timeline, he would die eventually. So I do think that’s one thing. But when you bring up Heimdall, he’s mentioned in the trailer, which is what I think is interesting and Thor. Exactly. Yeah. So obviously Thor is not that.

Taylor: But in terms of cameos, I mean, you saw Odin, so those three are the most likely cameos. I mean, you also saw Thor’s mother in Infinity War, right? But arguably, the one person who was most affected by that, I mean, obviously, Thor was that destroyed him. But you see Loki come undone in the Dark World because of the loss of his mother and the death of his mother, partially because it’s his fault. But, you know, you see that unraveling. So I think it could be interesting if he has that kind of time travel ability through the TVA, it will be interesting to see what members of his family he chooses to make amends with or resurrect to the best of his ability because he feels responsible for their deaths. I mean, think about Odin, you know, does he not feel responsible for Odin’s death as well?

Katie: We also have to keep in mind here, though, that he is still 2012 Loki. So seeing his own future, who is 2012 Loki going to be most worried about? At the end of the day, he’s still going to be worried about himself the most.

Taylor: And I guess none of them are dead yet, too.

Katie: Exactly. And he might not know that these now, we don’t know he’s going to see his entire future. We at least know he sees a snippet because we see the part where he is coming in Thor Ragnarok and saying, you know, “your savior is here”, one of his very iconic moments. But we see that. So he is clearly being showed pieces. And I’m wondering, you keep in mind, that comes quite frankly, like right before he dies, if you really think about it. So I do believe that there are probably a lot of holes in what he’s being shown. I don’t think he’s being shown everything. I mean, what’s one of the rules of time travel is that you aren’t supposed to know the future as well because that’s when you try to alter it so much. So I think him working with the TVA, like I said, will keep him out of dying in his original timeline. But I do think that they’re going to try and make sure he doesn’t alter other things, which I do think would be like his mother’s death, for example. And like I said, he still is going to be very worried about Loki himself because he has not gone through his redemption arc yet as that character.

Taylor: True. This is still crappy. Loki so but lovable. He’s kind of a jerk.

Katie: He isn’t quite the Loki we know that sacrificed himself to Thanos, which is my own issue, that he died 5 minutes into Infinity War.

Taylor:

But did he, though? Because there’s the whole blue skin issue.

Katie: Some people say he did. Some people say he didn’t. You know.

Taylor: Maybe we’ll get we’ll get some knowledge of that.

Katie: Well, I do wonder, because that seems a little strange to me. The how he died, how they really just were like, let’s just kill him off 5 minutes in.

Taylor: And then it could be that, you know, the Russo brothers, if you think about it, what characters are they going to be partial to, the original Avengers and especially Steve Rogers, because those are movies that, you know, they did Civil War, they did Winter Soldier. They are basically two thirds of Steve’s arc, you know. Do they feel this…

Katie: Then they did what they did in Endgame.

Taylor: Do they feel the same level of loyalty and attachment to some of these other characters that they have not been a part of, you know, especially it can be hard with the Thor franchise because other than Taika, it has not been the same director twice, but you know, so they’re kind of afloat when it comes to people taking, you know, ownership of their stories. It’s not a James Gunn situation where you’ve got the same director. It’s not even, you know, the Russo brothers who have done to two thirds of a character story. Or Jon Favreau doing most of Iron Man, like.

Katie: Yeah, I do think with Loki too, though it’s going to be interesting because of some of the rumors you’ve heard bouncing around now. Okay. So I’m going to start with the whole Infinity War, him dying from it. And Loki in the comics is very, very powerful, one of the most powerful, the entirety of the MCU, like some of the other characters who I will not at the moment named. Wander, the Winter Soldier himself. A lot of characters that have quite interesting abilities or are supposed to be very powerful were kind of dumbed down or neutered for a little while. I mean Wanda obviously we’re finally seeing come into her own. We were kind of promised in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier we’d see more with the Winter Soldier himself. We weren’t for a little while at least. I mean, I think he’s getting there, but I think that’s part of his whole, you know, redemption kind of thing. But with Loki, he is one of the most powerful characters as written in the comics. And yet he’s been very just, Oh, I can make multiple versions of me. They have not done much with him, so I would like to see it in the show. I think that’d be really interesting that they bring something more to him. However, I also, after seeing the trailer, feel they’re like also neutralizing him. But the TVA is neutralizing him in this case because he is going through time and they don’t want him to interfere too much. But I think it would be interesting to finally see Loki come into his own, considering he’s quite literally in the movies and now like in real life as well, has always been in the shadow of Thor.

Taylor: Here’s the million-dollar question: Who’s the lady in the red shot with the red hair?

Katie: I want to say Natasha so bad.

Taylor: Why not? Why not Natasha on Vormir?

Katie: Now, here’s the only reason I kind of think it could be Nat not because I think they’d give it to us, but because of they’ve moved Black Widow into the middle of Loki. And now we’ve been sitting on this for the past, I don’t even know how long being like, You’ve got to be kidding me. This is so stupid. Why would you move it into the middle of this? And we were like, Why would you do this? And it just kind of hit me. But I was like, what if that is her? And obviously, I understand why they moved it originally, but why would they have moved it into the middle of the show if it happened to be the episode she would appear in?

Taylor: Which, by the way, is also just super annoying if you’re trying to watch all this.

Katie: It is a lot. Yeah.

Taylor: It is a lot of content and a lot of scheduling.

Katie: I agree. But I think that would be interesting to me if it happened to be the episode before or after that she appears because it’s a Wednesday. Then the movie comes out that Friday. So I think, you know, maybe Marvel has a bigger plan, considering Marvel typically does. And this would have been a kind of like, well, we sat there and was like, well, this is just stupid. I mean, I don’t say that about Marvel movies, but…

Taylor: I’m very frustrated about the Wednesday move. I don’t know about you guys, but it is my, like, favorite thing to do at the end of a Friday. Get some good food and good snackos and watch the show. You know, just not having that as that, you know, pre-game to the weekend is definitely going to be weird.

Katie: And I know a lot of people stay up Thursday nights to watch it Friday early, you know, and I know a lot of people were doing that. So I think that’s going to be hard to do in like the middle of a workweek now or school not during summer, but still, you know, I think it’s hard. So I’m thinking if it is her that Marvel’s just really like, you know, let’s do this this way, it’s going to be a shock enough. And then they got the movie and the movie’s supposed to explain some other stuff with her and kind of hopefully wrap up her as a character because unfortunately, as we know, she died in our universe. Now, to be fair, Loki was all supposed to die in our universe. So is there a change there? Who knows?

Taylor: I, from a more meta logistical standpoint have been seeing you know, take them with a grain of salt because we know what the rumor mill looks like. But I’ve been seeing articles that she’s talking about a comeback into the MCU. So maybe Loki is like some kind of backdoor to either get another version of Natasha or however, you know, time travel opens a lot of windows. Maybe she’s in a multiverse version. You know, we haven’t even scratched the surface of what that’s going to look like which bends my brain.

Katie: It’s its own mess that’s going to come.

Taylor: So I think that, you know, you can’t just because she’s dead I know this is a comic book trope. Don’t rule her out. You know. There are a lot of possibilities there.

Katie: I agree. I mean, and I’ve brought this up to you and I know this has nothing to do with this, but there’s a really weird storyline where she like swaps faces with, oh my gosh, I don’t know how to say her name. You know her sister. Oh, the blond. I don’t know how to say her name or least I can’t think of it properly right now to say it properly. But there’s a whole storyline that’s a little weird that people kind of like.

Taylor: Yelena, right?

Katie: Yes. Yeah. I was like, is there a V in there? I don’t think so. But, you know, that’s a weird thing. So I do think, as you said, one the time travel, but also with her own movie, you know, things could be a little different. And I would love to see her come back. She’s also one of my top four. So, you know, I’ve been getting a lot of great content. Trust me, Wanda, Bucky, Loki show, her movie will come out. Nat so, you know, all four of mine. I’ve been hitting them all year, but I do hope I would love for her to come back. And I think it’d be interesting. I think it would be, and especially with Loki being kind of that segway into it, you know, at the same time, a lot of people are saying things like Lady Loki, which is its own other thing as well.So I’m really not sure. Like I said, I’m going to vote that I would like Nat to be back, but I don’t know.

Taylor: Yeah, I really think in my gut I’m going to say Nat. That’s my prediction. You can put it, you know, on the table and count me later.

Katie: Well I also sit there and I think there’s no way they’re making it that obvious for us because they would not have showed that clip.

Taylor: That’s true, misdirection is key.

Katie: Exactly so.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of considerations there. I don’t know. I just think, like you said, the timing is a little sus. Plus some of the rumor mill coming out with contracts and her return. And, you know, why would they even be talking about this as a whole kind of side issue? But the idea that Ryan Reynolds wants nothing to do with her in the MCU, well, it shouldn’t be an issue if she was dead. So, you know, that leads lends, at least to me, a little credence to some of those rumors that she’s not quite done yet.

Katie: Well, and I think, you know, to have her movie come out after you write her character off is a little strange to me. And I always did because it always came out afterwards. So I think even though now it’s like a year and six months afterwards, but I still always thought that was a little weird to me that they finally gave her her own movie and they had already killed her off as a character. I didn’t think that made much sense to me that they were like, “Well, she’s simply gone.” And also, you know, a lot of people have brought up the stones but if Steve’s technically returning them, shouldn’t that to some degree undo her sacrifice?

Taylor: That’s you know, that’s a good point.

Katie: But that’s what I mean, I don’t know if I buy into that. I don’t know I don’t know how I feel about it. But I think it’s a good thought to have is I mean, it’s a loophole. I mean, if the Stones coming back by a technicality, wouldn’t she come back? I don’t know. Like I said, you can buy into that or not buy into that. I don’t know if I do, but I think people brought that up. And I think it’s a great point to also kind of mention.

Taylor: Yeah. All right. Top prediction for Loki or thing you’d like to see the most?

Katie: I’m going to say other than possibly Nat, I want to see more of the future because they did give a really apocalyptic kind of look at least one of the Multiverse futures where New York is attacked. It’s like shattered and a mess.

Taylor: It’s always New York.

Katie: It is always New Yrok, you know, they just don’t make it. Well it was London last time with Spider-Man. So they did switch up. So no New York. I would really like to see more of that because I’ve also been seeing theories that that is possibly built off of the timeline in which Ultron wins and Sokovia is dropped onto the Earth because of the way everything is pushed.So if that is it, you know, I know people have so many mixed feelings about Age of Ultron. I loved him as an antagonist. I thought he was one of my favorites I’m not gonna lie. I was one of the people who was during Wandavision hoping when they brought Vision back and he first spoke that he would be Ultron.

Taylor: Oh, when they said there were rumors going around that James Spader had a voiceover.

Katie: I know. Well, that’s what I mean. The rumors are hard and sticky, so you got to sit there and take them with grain of salt. I think that would be one of the most interesting. Now, to be fair, Loki was also in New York, and that’s where they took him out of. So I do almost wonder now, like I said, the way things are pushed, I can’t see. But what if they blew up New York? You know, what if Ironman didn’t stop it?

Taylor: You know, you’re right. The Nuke, right?

Katie: Right. So my thoughts are I would love to see. That’s what I want to see more than anything. Is that future timeline. Just to understand what is going on, I want to know who won because clearly someone did. You know, someone who was in The Avengers.

Taylor: Or Thanos, really.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: New York didn’t even look that way after Thanos.

Katie: Well, exactly. So I would love to understand or to be fair, though, if they don’t beat Thanos in that timeline, what would happen? Because remember, his whole thing at that point was like, Well, you guys clearly can’t live with having people gone, so I just need to fix all of this then. So, you know, there’s that. But I like the Ultron theory. I want to run with that. That’s what I want to see. I want to see that future timeline more than anything.

Taylor: I think for me, I will be interested to see if we will get a parallel redemption arc, right? like our Loki in our universe has become such a beloved, I mean, he was always beloved, right? He was always Thor’s annoying, stab-you-in-the-back, shape-shifting, brother, right? You know, you love to hate him, but I think really throughout Ragnarok, what we see is the repairing of that brotherly bond and that’s why, you know, it’s so tough for Thor when he watches Loki be murdered. So I think there’s a really strong and beautiful redemption arc for that character. And I will be curious to see if we will see something similar in the absence of the love for his brother. Right. So we don’t I mean, we don’t know that Thor’s is or is not going to be in the show.

Katie: Well, but Thors got a fourth movie coming so.

Taylor: But if he is, it’s not going to be a lot because again, the show’s about Loki and we don’t want to overshadow Loki.

Katie: Right, but my point is, that’s a great segway into bringing Loki back into now Thor: Love and Thunder.

Taylor: You’re right. But I say all this to say, you know, I’ll be curious character wise if they choose to go the direction of well Loki has always had the goodness or the you know redeemable qualities in his heart regardless of whether or not he’s doing it for his brother or he just innately does know right and wrong right and chooses over time to make more right decisions, than wrong decisions.

Katie: Especially at the cost of his own life. Because although, hey, maybe he sees the fact that he’s going to die and instead he’s like, YOLO. Clearly. Yeah, like clearly me doing so well doesn’t get me anywhere. Yeah. So, you know, I think, you know, many different ways he’s going to work with the TVA from what I see in the trailer, although I don’t trust organizations.

Taylor: No, they seem super shady.

Katie: They just come out of nowhere.

Taylor: Where have they been?

Katie: Yeah, they don’t sit right with me. Just because we’ve seen from the FBI, clearly because of Hayward. But, you know, we see with the FBI Hydra within Shield, you know, even Sword. Hayward and the FBI, all that’s kind of in with each other at that point.

Taylor: But the big organizations, governmental or not are usually a little shady with all of their judgments and rules.

Katie: Yeah. Well. Oh, but one last thing that needs to be mentioned is-

Taylor: Owen Wilson.

Katie: Well, no. I did want to say this earlier, and it left my mind for one hot sec, but I remembered it. When Loki gets transported. He doesn’t land with the tesseract. So I just want to say-

Taylor: Where is it? We’re on Tesseract watch.

Katie: We’re unsure where it has landed.

Taylor: That means there’s a free Infinity Stone out there.

Katie: Yeah, in the 2012 timeline. Because you have to remember, that’s where we’re at.

Taylor: And Thanos is still alive in 2012.

Katie: He’s still trying to collect the stones.

Taylor: Just a seed for all you out there who the big purple man scares the heebie jeebies out of you. Or gives you heebie jeebies. It scares the crap out of me because he is horrifying. And I just can’t do it again.

Katie: And we can see him all over again in a different way. And, well, no, what Thanos did they kill?

Taylor: 2014.

Katie: Okay. Because I was like, wait, I do know they killed two now.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. So, you know, we can we can see him again possible. But who knows? I just had to I had to bring out that there was a loose Tesseract.

Taylor: Oh you’ve given me so much anxiety.

Katie: And you know how Loki is with his tesseract. He could have left it on Asgard to blow out when Asgard fell-

Taylor: And would still be alive if he did. Actually the whole universe would be.

Katie: Yeah, that was his bad.

Taylor: So really, everything that happened in Infinity War and Endgame boils down to Loki being the culprit.

Katie: Because he has some weird love for the Tesseract.

Taylor: He’s obsessed.

Katie: Yeah. Well, besides that point I like, I had to just bring it up before we wrap everything up that, you know, lose Tesseract. Keep that in mind.

Taylor: I think I blocked that out of the trailer.

Katie: I very strongly remembered it and I was like, oh man, this should be intense now that we have a Tesseract and we don’t see it anywhere else in the trailer. So that scene on its own is an issue because we don’t see it appear anywhere else.

Taylor: So this is the last little segment here, but I have some things I’m trying to wrap my brain around. And I know Loki’s going to play into it. And so this seems like a really good time to have this discussion. Are the multiple timelines the same as the Multiverse?

Katie: Such a good question.

Taylor:Because if there is a multiple universe thing and a separate multi-timeline thing, my brain will explode and it’s going to be gross and all over the walls. Like, I just can’t.

Katie: I agree with that. I’ve been seeing them kind of being used interchangeably, which is why I think we are to start to assume in one in some way. But at the same time, we’re going to be seeing Wanda and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

Taylor: And theoretically, Spider-Man has some kind of I mean, I don’t care what Andrew Garfield says in his interviews, the man’s under a gag rule. He’s not going to admit that he’s in the movie.

Katie: He’s always under a gag rule, poor man.

Taylor: So we’re going to see some elements in Spider-Man for sure, which is directly going to lead into Dr. Strange.

Katie: Well, my only thing is if the Multiverse is a thing, here’s the difference between a Multiverse and a timeline. A timeline would be the same character just across different versions. Right? So it would be in this case, Loki would look the exact same. All right. Let’s not use Loki, because Loki can shapeshift. Let’s use Steve. Steve’s another one that kind of went through time, stayed in time, whatever. Steve would look the same in every one of his timelines. Right? But in a Multiverse, there would be other Steves? You know, like that wouldn’t look because like him. I’m thinking about going off of the Spider-Man.

Taylor: Oh yeah, because Peter looks different.

Katie: At least the three that we see and if they bring in Miles Morales.

Taylor: Dude if they bring in Miles Morales I’m gonna lose it.

Katie: But my point still being they would all look different. And like we also want to even if you want to look at the Spider-Verse movie, you know. They literally like that’s the whole point is that they’re into different multiverses. There’s literally a pig like.

Taylor: I like that movie it’s so good, but there’s just some stuff.

Katie: Exactly. So I, I think to my knowledge is that they’re somewhat separate but like not?

Taylor: So, I guess what I’m getting at here that kind of melts my brain is the idea that within one Multiverse you could have multiple timelines. That means there are literally infinite Lokis, infinite Steves and then don’t even get me started on the Skrulls. So basically nobody is who they say they are.

Katie: Which is why I’m kind of upset that we’re kind of doing it all at once cause-

Taylor: This needed to be done in phases and not all hi, here’s Phase Four. Go melt your brain on this.

Katie: Well and then I think it would been fine if they left Endgame kind of where they left the Endgame with the time travel and just said let’s not talk about it. But the problem is is now that they’re making Loki based on time travel, but now they’re also with the whole- Well, first we sat there during all of WandaVision with friggin Ralph Boner. And I was like, You got to be kidding me.

Taylor: The world’s biggest red herring.

Katie: But, you know, we sat there and Multiverse, did it happen? But now we’re also going to actually see the Multiverse next March. It’s like, how are we doing this like this?

Taylor: I almost wish that they had if they, you know, they talked about time travel, in Infinity War, right? So maybe they kind of explain time travel a little bit more before introducing the Multiverse and before dealing with the Skrulls. But now we’ve already got scrolls that were hinted at at the end of Wandavision and we’ve already got the Multiverse hinted at.

Katie: Well, I do wonder if maybe Loki is going to be used as what Endgame wasn’t? And it will be used to wrap up the whole idea of time travel. So we’ll see.

Taylor: So you think they’re never going to do time travel again.

Katie: I think they’ll do it again, but I think they needed to do something past the Endgame. Because that was just weird. It was kind of a-

Taylor: Mess, but like a beautiful mess.

Katie: Right in its own way. And I think that they recognize that’s why I think Loki is going to be the way of explaining more with the time travel, especially because Loki, like, what were we going to do with him? Because we’re in our timeline and he would have been in 2012 timeline. Same with like the whole Gamora kind of thing. That’s going to be weird because we took one out of the timeline. So we got people out of different timelines in the wrong places, which is also why I’m like, why is this TVA place not like interfering with this?

Taylor: You think they can catch Gamora?

Katie: But still I’m just I mean, they caught Loki pretty easily apparently, and he’s literally the god of mischief and gets out of everything.

Taylor: To be fair, he was using Infinity Stone and Gamora is just out there trying to find herself.

Katie: So yeah, but regardless, especially, I mean, he brought the Infinity Stone to a different world and that wasn’t or at least a different area where it would have actually gone and where would it have gone after that if they would have actually granted, you know, in Endgame our heroes are kind of taking it. They take it back to Asgard. So I wonder, I don’t know where that is supposed to go in itself, but yeah, I don’t know. I’m hoping that honestly, Loki wraps up enough of the time travel for now that when we introduce the Multiverse fully, we can just worry about that. We can be like, okay, here’s the Multiverse because Multiverse plus time travel-

Taylor: Plus shapeshifting aliens.

Katie: I love Marvel, but I can’t handle it. I really, I cannot handle having so many timelines and so many things happening. Like I was just rewatching Winter Soldier and I was like, you know what? Remember when things were just simple?

Taylor: Time was just simple. It was just shady organizations within the government.

Katie: And it all made sense.

Taylor: And Helicarriers and surveillance. Remember when that was all we had to worry about?

Katie: Exactly. And then we had a big purple alien, which is fine, but now we have time travel and the Multiverse, and Wanda is kind of going crazy.

Taylor: And it’s not just the undoing of a rotting of an apple. It’s real time travel.

Katie: I agree. So I think it’s it’s going to be a little messy.

Taylor: If done poorly. Hopefully, Kevin has a tight hand on the reins and he knows what he’s doing.

Katie: Well we shall definitely see, that’s for sure.

Taylor: All right. I think we have talked our way through all of our Loki questions, predictions, and hopes. We’re going to call it a day.

Katie: I feel like at this point you just got to watch the first episode and there’s nothing more to it.

Taylor: Yeah, we will have some more semi-thought-through ideas at that time that by the end of the show, we will probably be way off because Marvel does that to us on a regular basis.

Katie: Us with WandaVision the entire time.

Taylor: We had a whole theory thought out.

Katie: Mephisto.

Taylor: Multiverse. It was a whole detailed plan that we had. We had thunked.

Katie: Yeah, I agree. But hey, that’s the fun of it, so.

Taylor: Yes, yes, no harm, no foul. We had many, many a discussion about our very wrong theory. Will we do that here? I don’t know. We’d like to have it with you, so.

Katie: So come back. Join us. Join the discussion.

Taylor: All right, guys, that is a wrap on our Loki predictions episode. Please don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast and give the blog a follow for new updates. The link to the blog is in the show description.

Katie: And as always, keep up with the shows and movies because Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.