Transcript

Taylor: Hello listeners, and welcome back to our coverage of Loki Season Two. As you may know, we are covering Episode Two of Season Two today. Please remember if you haven’t watched the episode already, we don’t always do these audio spoiler warnings, but just remember we’re going to do one today. If you haven’t watched the episode, please turn our episode off, go back, watch Loki Season Two, Episode Two, and then come back to us. And now we’re just going to get right into it because I think there’s a lot to talk about. So I’m going to kick it over to Katie and she’s going to start us off and we are going to dive deep, we’re going to analyze and we’re going to make some predictions.

Katie: There’s definitely a lot to talk about after Episode Two. I feel as if and not that this is completely accurate, but I do think Episode One felt pretty self-contained and, you know, we had a problem, we had a solution. We said that last episode. Episode Two, definitely came out of the gate saying, we are opening up the bigger problem in a much more clear way. I think in my opinion, but also you’re going to go, oh crap in this episode and you’re going to understand the tone of the series starting now. If you didn’t get what was happening in Episode One, you’re going to understand now. And I have to say, so far, Loki Season Two is two for two in my books.

Taylor: I agree. I thoroughly enjoyed Episode Two. Just as a little bit of background, I watched it after we returned from our vacation after I’d been up for like 20 hours straight. But that was the first 45 minutes in about 4 hours that I wasn’t falling asleep. So that says something because I was exhausted.

Katie: Congratulations.

Taylor: I know. Thank you. It was really tough.

Katie: No, I had to wait to watch it until the next day because I barely made it to 9:45 last night until I finally was like I need to just go to bed. I have to. I’m too tired.

Taylor: Yeah, it was tough but luckily, Loki helped me stay awake. I really, really liked this episode. I thought that to your point, it kind of moved on. We had said the last episode, you pointed out, you know, Episode One of Season Two really was a kind of bridge episode, I think. Finalizing a lot of plot threads from the finale, answering a few questions as it relates to that, especially when you get into things like timeslipping. But I think in Season Two and you mentioned it in your kind of opening, we’re really starting to zero in on what is our actual plot going to be for this season? What are going to be the main things that we’re fighting against? Who are the players? What is the plot? And so I think based on this so far, one, I think it’s been fantastic the actual content itself. But I also think that Season Two is going to be really, really interesting and I’m excited to see where they take it. And I hope that they’re able to kind of keep this momentum going and really execute effectively all the way through six episodes.

Katie: I am 100% on the same page with you on that one, because I think and to stay in the broad realm of all of this, we all know my feelings about Season One. If you listen to Season One, we both start off so happy with it and we’re like, this is awesome. We’re in such a good place. And it’s by Episode Three, Four and then by Five, Six we were gone, but Three and Four were those horrible turning points, I think, where things just started going in a direction that we didn’t necessarily agree with and also just was weird and just whatever. And so I am a little nervous because we’re reaching now Episode Three, which is next week, and I get a little nervous because I’m very excited about Season Two. I think it’s so different already than Season One because we don’t have some of that story that we need to build. We know the TVA, we understand the TVA, we get the rules, I mean, to an extent.

Taylor: I was going to say, do we though? 

Katie: Yeah, to an extent. I can’t say for sure that we do, but we have at least the ground level. We don’t need a foundation. I understand what they’re fighting for, I get what happened, like this entire episode for the most part, I genuinely understood what happened and I can’t say that often for Loki, the series so far. So that makes me happy in itself. I’m excited to be able to say, wow, I watched an entire episode of something and I understood what happened. I get it and I understand that there are larger ramifications coming, and I could see for the first time the darkness of the series is going to go down, and that’s exciting for me. I think it’s going in a completely different direction already than I anticipated it was going to, and even just I think we might’ve touched on it a little bit in Episode One, the trailers, right. The trailers, up to this point, we have seen almost every single clip of them now.

Taylor: Yeah, I think we have. Is there anything left? 

Katie: I mean, I don’t know the trailers inside and out, but I can positively say if there is anything left, it’s very little. 

Taylor: Yeah, I agree. 

Katie: There’s only maybe a scene or two. We have between Episode One and Two scenes pretty much- I mean, we haven’t seen any of the Victor Timely stuff or the Renslayer stuff. Obviously, that’s coming, we all know that’s coming. But beyond that, a lot of the scenes that were in the trailer were covered, if not in One, now were covered in Two.

Taylor: Yeah, I definitely clocked that as I was watching the episode last night. I was thinking to myself, All right, all of this stuff in the 1800s and stuff was Zaniac, and we’ll get into him in a minute, I’m sure, all of that was really heavily focused on in the trailers, even, you know, the Sylvie McDonald stuff was obviously they had that partnership with McDonald, so that was all over everywhere. That’s now all been covered. That’s now all been footage we’ve seen in the show. So and this was something we talked about, I think even in the predictions was that, you know, we can predict all we want, but realistically, we’ve probably only seen about what did we say, 10, 20% of the show in the trailers? And you mentioned Victor Timely, I do actually want to use this as the point to kind of get into our first topic and I don’t think is our biggest topic by any means, but I do think we got our first hint at why we’re looking for Victor Timely now, and that is O.B. and the lock on the room with the loom.

Katie: Correct and before we go further into this, I just want to say, the theory that Taylor and I threw out or I guess technically I threw it out, but Taylor endorsed it, not that I’m trying to take anything from you just because I realize I was the one who voiced it. But we as a team here are endorsing it, is that we kind of felt that this season is going to be about going back almost to the origins of the TVA in order to solve what’s happening. Granted, at the time we didn’t really understand the degree of what was going on. Obviously, this was our predictions episode, but it was thrown out there that we are going to have to go back in history to understand the TVA and whatever that means for us to get the TVA back up and running in a new way or back how it was, whatever the solution needs to be. So to your point, this does open that door about connecting why we have to find Victor Timely, more than I think, what a lot of us thought even from that end credits scene in Quantumania, where we were kind of like, Loki’s going after him because he knows him or they’re going after his variants or things like that. I think those are a couple of theories we threw out there. We now know that doesn’t seem to be the direction we’re going to be going with this. They’re going after him because they can’t fix the temporal loom without him.

Taylor: Yeah, which I think is an interesting thing, and again, to your point, not at all what we expected. Even after I think it was the last episode or maybe it was our predictions, you know, we talked about maybe they’re going to him to stop him from ever creating the TVA. And I definitely want to talk about the kind of evolving role of the TVA in this show, because I think that’s a really, really important point. But well, we’ll shelve that for a second. Going back to, I believe it was our predictions episode, we were saying, you know, he’s probably going after him to stop him from ever creating the TVA. Now we have a better idea. No, he actually needs him to actually open this door or what are they?

Katie: I think they’re the blast doors.

Taylor: Yes. Thank you. I was like, I know there’s like a more technical term, to open those blast doors in order to fix the loom. And I think what will be interesting to knowing Ravonna’s connection to Kang’s different variants throughout the comics. I don’t think it was an accident that they found her and then I saw her too later suddenly we need to go after a variant of Kang, right. Something tells me, and we’ve seen the footage, this is a piece of footage we haven’t seen in the show yet that we saw in the trailer was Ravonna again in that kind of 1800s garb, hinting that she’s probably in the same time period as Victor Timely. So maybe she’s going after the man that is behind it all or a variant of him. Now, whether she’s starting to get some of her memories back from before the mind wipe of that change from Kang to Timekeepers or sorry, He Who Remains to Timekeepers that we talked about in the last episode, I don’t know if there’s a way for her to access those memories or if she’s just going on gut instinct. But I don’t think it’s an accident that those two scenes were so closely together at the end of the episode. I don’t remember what order they were in, but there’s going to be a connection between Ravonna and a variant of Kang, and we’re going to finally see that. And I think that’s going to, you know, be a direct ramification of, of course, the relationship in the comics.

Katie: Well we even talked about it before, I think, you know, we discussed the loyalty thing. And while I think something you threw out there was saying maybe there are these little bits of memory that stick around and for her, it was this loyalty to this thing. So whether it was to the Timekeepers or to He Who Remains, it didn’t really matter when that switch took place, she kept her loyalty to whatever was that governing body. And so I do think, she’s probably going after him maybe because memories are coming back. I don’t think they are unless it just comes down to when you’re outside the TVA more maybe now that the TVA is kind of funky and there are all these branches happening, maybe memories can come back now. I don’t know. I don’t think that’s the direction they’re going more than it’s she just knows. I have a feeling. I have a feeling deep down somewhere she’s aware. To something you were saying about their relationship in the comics, if they have a romantic relationship, especially, I have this just deeper rooted feeling that she knows something. She always knew something to a degree. And so I think she just fled or maybe she’s just doing what Loki’s going to be doing just way ahead of them and is just looking for the source of the TVA and she ends up finding him. Or wait now that I just thought about this, and we’ll get into this, this can bridge right into this conversation. But X5 also known as Brad can’t remember his last name but also known as Brad. He goes back to the Sacred Timeline and starts living his life, which we’ll get into. Maybe in some weird way, she did the same thing, but her actual counterpart on the Sacred Timeline is in the 1800s, helping He Who Remains build the TVA.

Taylor: I’m going to have to put a no on your Ravonna from the 1800s theory only because we already saw Ravonna on the Sacred Timeline, that’s what they used to convince one of the Minutemen in Season One. Remember, they show her as a teacher?

Katie: I do vaguely remember that.

Taylor: So we’ve already seen Ravonna on the Sacred Timeline and she looked like she was like a modern-day teacher. So I’m going to have to say no just because that one we’ve already seen and obviously it’s a time travel show, but still, I think her place on the Sacred Timeline is in more modern times.

Katie: Okay. So I don’t this is not to say I disagree because I can’t disagree, but I’m trying to put together the pieces here because I think especially during the predictions, I hadn’t yet had the chance to watch that. So I don’t think I was able to really think about it. And now that I’m thinking about it because it kind of glossed right past me, we saw that Ravonna that we see in the trailers has to be the TVA one, correct? That’s pretty much what you’re saying.

Taylor: Yes, I am assuming that is the Ravonna from the TVA because the real Ravonna hasn’t been born for a couple hundred years or won’t be born for a couple hundred years.

Katie: Okay, well then I revoke everything I’ve said. However, I will say what’s interesting is and we’ll also get to how this happened. But I’m intrigued that she’s on the, obviously, she has to be on the Sacred Timeline if she’s going after like if she is trying to find the beginning of the TVA, which I would think she is, she’s a loyalist, as we said, that is going to be her biggest downfall, I think, in the end. But she is loyal to the TVA regardless of whose face it wears. So I’m thinking if she’s going after him and she’s on the Sacred Timeline, obviously, we see the reason they’re able to find her is because a bunch of branches gets snapped. We will also discuss that really like wow moment that happened very early into a show that I didn’t anticipate happening so quickly.

Taylor: Which parallels a lot of Season One. I mean, think about the end of Episode Two, Season One, when Loki or not Loki, Sylvie uses her time bombs to bomb the timeline and create all the branches in the first place. There’s a big parallel there.

Katie: Actually, I even think about that. I was actually just going to say the shock factor is very similar to that of I was thinking Secret Invasion Episode One. 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: I was just that was where I was going. But I do like your parallel a lot more, mainly because it deals with the actual show and I see it a lot more clearly. But okay, so that Ravonna she’s on Sacred Timeline, she’s going back. So actually they’re going to hit two birds with one stone because they’re looking for her, who’s looking for him. And well, I don’t think she knows she’s looking for him directly yet.

Taylor: Yeah, I would agree. I think because going back to and you mentioned this footage, going back to what we saw at the end credits scene of Quantumania, Loki looks shocked and I think we mentioned this in the predictions. When he sees Victor Timely, he looks at Mobius and he’s like, bruh, bruh, that’s him and he looks genuinely scared and shocked. And so I think you’re right. I think they are going for Ravonna, happen to see this Victor Timely guy, and Loki’s like oh crap. We just found what we needed but also I’m terrified.

Katie: Okay, so now I’m going to raise a question because I think I’m all where we need to be with the whole Ravonna thing but I just want to clarify this because I think that’s going to decide whether I’m where we need to be. If she is supposed to be, let’s say in the 20th century, being a teacher.

Taylor: Probably 21st.

Katie: Sorry, that’s what I meant. I’m getting all thrown off already. But if she’s supposed to be there, when was she cut out of her because, I mean, they’re not being pruned like that’s because you’re pruned and that’s different. So the ones that have been selected to work in the TVA, the question is when were they cut out of their timeline? And also if she has been on the tape talking to He Who Remains, again we have to ask the question of this whole time thing in the TVA, how the heck does it work?

Taylor: Yeah, and I think that was also hinted at with the Mobius and O.B. conversation from the first episode. So here is kind of how I’m viewing it based on a few different works and the hints that we’ve gotten about how time works. Everything’s always happening, right? We saw that. That’s why you’re able to time travel. That’s why the Avengers were able to go back in time and take the Infinity Stones and put them back at the exact moment they took them and nothing was changed. So because of that, we can’t actually pinpoint at what time 21st-century teacher Ravonna said, okay, cool, I’m going to make a different decision today and it’s going to branch a timeline and I’m going to get apprehended by the TVA. Or maybe, I mean, heck, maybe she was the first one and she was apprehended by He Who Remains, converted into a loyalist, mindwiped, all of that. And then she spent hundreds of years by his side, both openly as him being the face of the TVA and also behind the scenes as him, you know, being the puppet master behind the Timekeepers. But I don’t think there’s a way for us to know that at this point, because, again, time is always moving. So she could have been plucked at any time as it relates to the TVA because remember, TVA time is not moving the same way as the Sacred Timeline. Again, going back to that O.B. and Mobius conversation, Mobius hadn’t seen O.B. in 400 years. So if you think about that, Ravonna is higher up than even Mobius, so she’s probably been there for hundreds more years. And that wasn’t even just when Mobius started. So she’s probably been there for like thousands of years in the TVA time but that doesn’t necessarily translate to thousands of years on the Sacred Timeline, because her Sacred Timeline self is just continuing to live her life over and over and over again.

Katie: Yeah, I guess my brain just really struggles with that. Like, I get it, but I don’t. It struggles with that concept. So I think that’s why I’m trying to understand because I keep forgetting everything’s always happening. 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: That’s very hard for me because you could tell me time is circular and I’m like, okay. I kind of, get what you’re saying, but if you were telling me I could go to any point in time and it would be the exact same thing all the time, I, for some unknown reason, struggle with that. So especially when you’re in the past, but the future is already happening technically somewhere else. It’s just very weird, but that makes sense to me. I want to take this right into that conversation about our buddy Brad, very properly named. He is definitely a Brad.

Taylor: 100% fits. If I’ve ever seen a Brad, it was him.

Katie: It was definitely him. And I have to say, you know, he was part of a bigger scheme and we’ll get to that. That was the big thing of this episode. But I have to say, it was very interesting to me that someone did it, someone just said, screw it, I’m going back, but I want to clarify. What happened to the version of him that’s supposed to be there or did he create- no, because he was on the Sacred Timeline, so he couldn’t have created a branch itself. I don’t know. I was a little confused about that like he definitely took his own place.

Taylor: Yeah, well, that goes back to the conversation we were having last episode. What do you do with the person, the version of you that’s supposed to be there? Do you kill that version of you? Do you kidnap that version of you? Do you hope that that version of you is dead?

Katie: Did he prune him? 

Taylor: Yeah. I have all those questions and we don’t have any of those answers. You know, maybe we will find out he’s still in the custody of the TVA, right? So maybe they’re going to get into that. But I think, too, and not to get us too far off track but I do want to say this, I think that there is some hinting going on that Mobius will find out about his life on the Sacred Timeline. I mean, that entire scene where they’re eating the key lime pie is basically a therapy session between two friends. We’ve all done it. And Loki is like poking at his buddy, like, hey, guy, we both know that you’re not okay and he touched a nerve. And I think that that’s not a coincidence that Mobius is starting to have these feelings that he’s really, really trying to manage and really trying to just like section off in his brain like we all do with certain things, at the same time that we’re learning that someone has pretty successfully managed to reenter their lives, probably not in a very ethical way, but we just saw it done. So is that where Mobius’ character, ends up? Who knows? He’s rumored to be in Deadpool 3, but maybe the arc of his character is that eventually, he gets to go live the life and ride all the jetskis he wants that he didn’t get to do what he was taken by the TVA.

Katie: And that’s very possible. I think the whole Brad thing does open a very interesting door because B-15 is a huge fan and I don’t wanna say fan, that’s not the right word, but it’s what I’m going to go with because I can’t think of the word I’m looking for right now, of letting everybody on the branches obviously live. So when somebody who would have been considered a variant does something different, instead of taking them out and pruning the branch, they’re like, hey, we’re letting this go. They are now going to create a completely different branch, anything goes. It’s a life, it’s a new timeline, cool, whatever. And so you see her advocating for this and what’s interesting is Brad is on the side of you know, the anti TVA people or I should say anti TVA. I mean like they’re the anti-changing TVA tactics people. And he goes back to the Sacred Timeline and says screw the branches, I’m just going to take my life right back over. I don’t know who I was. I don’t have any of those memories. But he managed to just get right into his old life and again, we don’t exactly know what happened to the original who is supposed to be living their life. Also, I can’t see how he’s able to execute everything perfectly to continue not creating a branch, but maybe it doesn’t really matter what version of them is there, as long as a version of them is there. I don’t know. That was kind of weird to me too.

Taylor: Yeah, it is weird and I have two potential answers for you, actually three. One, it’s entirely possible, you know how when we saw in the time theater you can study someone’s life, maybe he just went and studied his own dang life and was like, this is what I need to do in order to not create a branch. Two, it’s entirely possible we’re following the Agents of SHIELD theory.

Katie: I was just about to say that. Ripples, not waves.

Taylor: Exactly. So maybe he’s making small changes, small changes, but nothing enough to create a branch. And three, maybe it’s got something to do with his very wonky tempad and how that’s able to manipulate things. Again, I don’t think we ever fully got an answer about what he did to it and what it now does. So I think, you know, they spent enough time on it that it’s clearly important. And, you know, we’re probably going to get an answer to it at some point. But until then, I think it’s an entirely viable theory to say that there’s something that he did that allows him to kind of go undetected because he thought he was undetectable by the TVA but he’s not. But maybe he can go kind of undetected on like the variance with a C from the Sacred Timeline.

Katie: Okay, two things for that. One, didn’t they say that the tempad had something to do with the TVA loyalists that were blowing everything up? Didn’t they say that that was connected to their whole scheme? 

Taylor: Yeah, they did something to them. I didn’t understand. That was the one part of the episode I didn’t get.

Katie: No, I didn’t fully get it either. My understanding was whatever was wonky with his tempad was because of what the TVA loyalist did.

Taylor: Yeah, but I mean, it’s entirely possible and you’re right, that is a good that’s a good point. I just wonder if it has also unintended other consequences and that’s just one modification.

Katie: Oh, I’m sure. But I’m wondering if think about what they’re doing and again, we’ll get into it because that’s one of the bigger parts of the episode. Think about what they’re doing with essentially bombing all the branches to prune them. I wonder if that tempad was supposed to be used to prune a branch, but he went a little awol and instead decided to just jump into his life. He had it still. I’m sure it had many other, I think you kind of just said this, I’m sure it had many other capabilities. At the end of the day that was still the intention of it was he was probably supposed to drop that tempad or use that tempad to drop a bomb on one of the branches. He just didn’t follow through with the mission.

Taylor: Right and I think the other possibility there is that, it might have been modified once for the the branch bombing mission, but he could have gone ahead and modified it again. So that’s the other thing is, is his the exact same as the modified tempads that were used to bomb the timeline or did he go ahead and say, well, this is cool. This has unlocked some new functionality. Let me go ahead now and see what else I can do to play with it and make this possible for myself to stay on this timeline undetected or virtually undetected while I do whatever I want, kind of resume my life.

Katie: Yeah, I think they both kind of play into the factor. My other, well, hold on. I actually just want to say something to your Mobius thing that you said earlier, so I don’t forget it. I think this is going to be a journey for Mobius as well, to your point. I think this finally and not that I don’t think he had character development in the first season, he clearly did. He also bought into the whole and Loki even says it. All you’re saying is just things you’re you believe you believe the TVA does this and you believe the TVA’s good and blah blah, blah, blah, blah but that’s your belief. To somebody like me, I don’t believe that and that’s a whole conversation they have. Obviously, by the end, Mobius is forced to change that point of view due to understanding the TVA is not what he thought it was. But I think this is going to be even more character growth to understand that he’s eventually going to reach the point where he sees what his life is. Now that he knows he’s going to reach that point. I think Loki is pushing him to get there, too. He wants him to know, at least understand what his life was. It is interesting because again, it comes down to: what does it mean for all of these variants that are stuck in the TVA, like genuinely, what does it mean? What can they do? Because we saw Brad do something, but we don’t know how ethical it was. And does that mean Mobius could step into his life because I think he made a good point in saying, it’s not my life though.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, if you think about Loki and the reason he probably doesn’t want to hear that is he still thinks he is the Loki, right? He doesn’t want to think about the Loki who and this is I definitely want to talk about the scene with him and Brad and the two interrogation scenes for sure. But I’ll just bring up this one part right now. Brad brings up how he’s responsible for Frigga’s death. This Loki reacts to it, but think about it, he never actually did that. Like this version of Loki did not live that part of our Loki’s life. So he relates to that part of it, but he doesn’t relate to any of the things that his father said in Ragnarok and the closure he got there. The whole idea of Ragnarok, like he knows it happens and he knows that Asgard is gone but to him, Asgard is still alive or, you know, exists. And he definitely doesn’t want to think about the fact that Thanos snapped his neck and he didn’t even put up a good fight. So there are a lot of things that I think Loki is in denial about, about his own life and his own place no longer on the Sacred Timeline, because I don’t think he has fully reconciled the fact that he is not according to the laws of the Sacred Timeline, he’s not the real Loki. He is a variant. He’s not the main character. He is in this show, but if you take this show out, our Loki still does the exact same stuff. And so I think that might be part of it too, is that Loki is trying to get Mobius on his side to see it his way, but he has a lot of working through that he still needs to do about his place in all of this as well.

Katie: I agree and honestly, I’m just going to take that run with it because my other thing I’ve been trying to say, and there wasn’t really a good place to say it, but this is kind of better if we’re going to open the Loki doors. Loki was on the Sacred Timeline again. 

Taylor: Yup. 

Katie: Moment of silence for the sheer fact of of realizing that because it didn’t even dawn on me until we were talking about it and I was like oh my God, Loki was all the Sacred Timeline again. They took him back to the Sacred Timeline. And then it got me thinking, does any of this matter? Could we get Loki to be resurrected at this point? Because what are the rules? Are there any rules? Not really. Literally, not really. 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, we talked about it. Where is our Loki and Thor reunion? I think that is absolutely on the table, you know, depending on how things shake out with the Brad situation and how he was able to do that, why not? And maybe it starts a branched timeline, maybe it doesn’t but is there even a concept of a Sacred Timeline anymore or is it just one timeline that every other timeline is coming off of? There’s no real Sacred Timeline anymore so why the heck couldn’t he? And the other thing I want to say about Loki being on the Sacred Timeline and I’m shocked that you haven’t said this yet, is that we finally get to see Loki really kicking butt and taking names in a way that we have not in a while.

Katie: So the reason I haven’t said it is because I didn’t want to we weren’t there yet. We we didn’t open the can of worms that was Loki in this episode just yet because the more shocking thing for me was realizing he was on the Sacred Timeline again, because again, how many times have we sat here? I think I did it as a newsletter at one point, just throwing out that question of could we ever get Loki to return? Could we genuinely ever get it? And as long as and I’ve always said this, as long as Thor and his chess piece stay on that board, I will wholeheartedly believe we will get some sort of a reunion one day. I just believe it. But I had that as a note. First off hallway scene. Thank you. Y’all know y’all knew like, you know who your audience is for this show, enough said. Secondly, though, my brain I guess I have it written down in my notes and everything. I was like, this is it. I complained about this so bad in Season One. I complain about this so bad throughout the rest of pretty much everything past Avengers because it was like Loki forgot that he was a magical being and has the ability to do all this stuff even though he apparently learned all this magic from his mother. We never saw it past Avengers.

Taylor: This is the guy who attacked the Mad Titan with a dagger in the Sacred Timeline.

Katie: We don’t talk about it. We don’t talk about it.

Taylor: I’m just saying it reinforces your point. I know it’s not our favorite thing to talk about, but if you want to talk about nerfing someone, let me have the God of Mischief, Mr. Magic, go after the Mad Titan, who tortured him for months so he knows exactly what he’s capable of, with a dagger. I mean, come on.

Katie: Well, and if we want to open that can of worms, the can of worms is the one that I’ve complained about for ages, which is Marvel does not know what to do with their superpowered beings and so in some way or another, they have to nerf them. And it is aggravating to all heck and even Thor. Finally in Ragnarok, he unleashes all this power, and then in Infinity War they’re like, my bad, we’re going to take that all back. And then Endgame they said, we’re really going to take it all back. It just it is just such an unfortunate thing because they don’t they up all the stakes, but they never allow the powerful beings to be powerful because the stakes are still not high enough for them half the time. Which is also a shame because there are a lot of comic book storylines that obviously have these powerful beings and characters involved that actually aren’t like, well, Wanda could just wave her arms and undo all this or just, you know, do that and pretty much delete this person from my existence. Like, there are genuinely a lot of storylines that still have to put up a fight. There’s still a good fight in there. So unfortunately that’s the problem that Loki faced this whole time. The problem now is as cool as it was to watch all that because it was so awesome to finally see him using his powers like that. Now it just looks weird because we had about what, seven, eight years where he just didn’t really. I mean, okay, we’d see him do the whole illusion thing that was kind of his big thing for a while, but we never saw some of like the shadow thing where the shadows physically could grab Brad. That was awesome. Did we ever see anything closer before? No. So now it just looks weird. Now I’m just kind of like, where did all this power suddenly come from?

Taylor: Also, where was this again when you were fighting Thanos? I actually, it made me chuckle to myself because on a meta-level, if you’ve been following any of the conversations through the years about the next Bond to replace Craig, you know, as much as there’s the Cavill’s of the world going after it, I think Idris Elba has been talked about. Hiddleston’s name has been in there, and then it’s out and then it’s in and then it’s out. And when he’s running in this suit, I just kept thinking to myself, is this his Bond audition tape?

Katie: Yeah, I definitely do. My first thought was Tom Cruise. I was like, he’s pulling a Tom Cruise running scene. It was good. It was awesome. I mean, between, like I said, the hallway scene but beyond the whole scene, because, again, they just knew what they were doing. I literally had to go back four different times just to watch it again. I was like perfection. It reminded me very much of Cap’s Infinity War entrance, where you just like, I need to see it again. It just needs to happen again. But yeah, I definitely the whole fight scene was great. I thought they executed him and his powers very well. I just think it made Loki what Loki’s supposed to be. Not just like this conniving, younger brother of Thor. He genuinely is a formidable force. I think he was close to that and I said this earlier, he was close to that in Avengers. I think that’s probably one of the- that and the first Thor but they kind of go hand in hand- were the closest. And that’s why to circle all the way back to Brad’s conversation with him saying you’re not a good hero, you’re a villain. I was like, I mean, is he wrong? Because the best version of Loki, in my opinion, was Loki as a villain.

Taylor: And Loki is that version right now. Like, think about where we left him.

Katie: That is exactly what I wrote down. I literally was like, this Loki has not gone through the redemption arc that our Loki did. So I was like, this is that Loki. We might be six days away from the Battle of New York.

Taylor: Yeah, 5 minutes away from the Battle of New York. Yeah. No, I totally agree. You know and I thought that conversation was so interesting. And I think it’s something that we talked about a lot last season was the idea that they tried to make this Loki redeemed by watching the other Loki go through ten years of redemption in 10 minutes. So it is interesting that this Loki is so willing to tap into his darkness and use that. I think when he uses that to intimidate Brad, I was like, all right, now we’re getting somewhere, right? This is the Loki that we saw lied to by his father, that we saw tried to kill his brother, that we saw attack New York. And then if you think about the fact that, again, this Loki hasn’t done any of the things to redeem himself yet like he’s that much closer to going over the edge. And you know, when he and Mobius pull that stunt with the torture device, I actually thought he was legitimately stabbing Mobius in the back and the only reason I was disappointed was I didn’t want him to lose Mobius’ trust that he worked so hard to get in Season One. And I was like, no, this is going to set their friendship back so far, and then to know they were both in on it was great. But, you know, I do think you’re right. I think that conversation is so interesting because it takes Loki back to kind of the essence of who he was, but also is a not-so-gentle reminder that the Loki that we’ve all grown accustomed to and grown to really love, because think about it, he’s probably one of the most popular characters in the MCU right now, that Loki that we all feel really protective over, or at least that’s kind of my feeling, who died at the hands of Thanos, this isn’t that guy. I think even though we saw him kind of switch to the good side and he is fighting for the right thing right now, it’s Marvel’s way of saying this guy and that guy are not the same. There is going to be some things that he’s willing to do that our other guy was not so don’t be fooled. They may have the same face, but they are not the same guy.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, I think for one, in that scene I knew he wasn’t stopping Mobius in the back because they literally had the whole conversation about you’re the God of Mischief. So they were going to play a track and you knew that. So I can’t say I thought he was, but I was happy to see that glimpse of 2012 Loki, quite frankly. That darker side of him because that is who he is. And I think that was one of the problems I voiced a lot from Season One was I was like, why are we pretending he’s not minutes, days, maybe weeks away from the Battle of New York? I mean, to him it has maybe only felt like a few days. So that was, I think one of the biggest complaints I had was you have one of the darkest versions of Loki that you took from the timeline and I just have to expect and just watch him sit there and be a suddenly like, lovesick puppy. I’m not sure what you wanted from me, I think that was a big complaint as somebody who’s been a Loki fan since day one, and that just frustrated me. So I think I don’t know if there has been the ability for Marvel to hear that criticism a little bit and say, yeah, you know, that’s a little weird considering it took the other Loki ten years to go through a whole redemption arc. This one did in what seemed to be 5 minutes. Maybe we should give him a little bit, a little sprinkle of that inner evil that he still has.

Taylor: Yeah and I think, you know, I definitely think that they’re listening, because if you even think about one of our bigger criticisms, I know the fandom is very split on this one, but the Sylvie and Loki relationship. The conversation that Mobius and Brad had or X5, whatever you want to call him, about how weird it is that Loki is in love with himself like that is directly a conversation that the fandom had after Season One, and so it makes me think two things actually. One, they’re listening and two, they may be stepping away from that. Clearly, Sylvie’s not into it anymore, and Loki is just sad all the time when she’s around. So maybe they’re not going to continue to pursue that. You know, I think they kind of heard that people were a little weirded out by it, which makes sense. So I don’t know that that’s necessarily going to be a continuation from Season One.

Katie: I hope not. I didn’t like it. We all know that. But I also just didn’t think it did anything for the story. You could have taken out that whole thing and I think we would have been okay. And I think we’ve already seen that in the first two episodes of this. We don’t have them in a relationship and we’re chillin. The thing they’re arguing about is the fact that she’s content with killing He Who Remains and walking away and watching the TVA burn because quite frankly, that’s what she wanted. She always did and then she also wanted to live a life. But like that was all in one pretty package for her, the ends always justify the means. On the other hand, I think we see Loki, who has learned that kind of in a weird way, like the TVA, almost, and I don’t know if some of that’s because of Mobius or what, but I think he’s kind of I think he sees the TVA as a savior because at the end of the day, yeah, they had to take him out, but he understands the rules to an extent and he understands he probably should have been pruned a long time ago and it didn’t happen. The only thing keeping him alive at this point is the TVA or he would not exist. And so and I say that at this point because had he branched off once the Multiverse was open, he’d be off on his own branch, but obviously not what happened.

Taylor: Season Three question mark.

Katie: Yeah, right. But he also didn’t want to kill He Who Remains, and that’s why we saw him try to stop Sylvie. And that is the argument we’re seeing, which I’m like, that’s cool. I’m okay with those opposing sides. Keep them where they need to be, with what they believe in. Stop with the love interest crap. I really don’t need it for the story. There’s too much going on for me to have to sit here and watch some relationship form or now form. Let’s just focus on the fact that the TVA is split into two. We have TVA loyalists. We’ve got I don’t know what we’re going to call the good guys, but the good guys who are still running the TVA, trying to let everybody live. But at the end of the day, getting right into the big moment of the episode, the loyalists sat there and literally just killed millions of people.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think one of the things that struck me in that moment beyond, you know, what they did, which was like insane, but also taking a page out of Sylvie’s book, like I mentioned, is that our TVA, our Mobius, Loki team with B-15 and Casey and O.B. they are now doing the exact opposite. They’re now the protectors of the Multiverse, not the Sacred Timeline, which is something that I don’t think I really fully grasped in Episode One until I watched them do everything they could to try to save the Multiverse. And I think it’s so interesting because we saw obviously, as you know, Season One of the TVA was Sacred Timeline above all else. And now here we are, TVA protectors of the Multiverse. And then I know, if you want to extrapolate that to what does that do to the rest of the MCU, it means that now we have the option to keep the Multiverse for the long term because we have an entire institution run essentially by one of our most popular and longest running characters out here trying to protect it and preserve it and keep it going. So, you know, if he defeats the other faction of the TVA, which likely he will.

Katie: It looked pretty promising during this episode.

Taylor: Yeah and just stamp them out completely, potentially by the end of the season. We now have an entire institution protecting the Multiverse, keeping it alive, and making sure that nothing happens to it. How does Kang interfere with that? You know, we’ll see how that shakes out and evolves throughout the season. But I think that this is really telling us, hey, the Multiverse saga, we freaking meant it, right? We are here to stay, the Multiverse is here to stay. These stories that now have opportunities to be told, they’re not going away just because this show was happening and we thought potentially what is going to happen? Are they going to fix the Multiverse and do all that? How is that going to play into everything? I think we got the answer that they’re not, they’re protecting it. They’re keeping it alive, keeping it open, and keeping it going.

Katie: I don’t disagree with that statement, but I think it’s an oversimplification of the current situation because while I think that is, at the end of the day, what they want to do. They want to protect the Multiverse. They want to let everybody live their lives, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s a lot more complicated because to your point, there are still TVA loyalists. The loyalists just blew up a lot of branches. And not that I want to because I think I said this last episode or in the predictions one of the two, until the end of this show, I want to try and keep it as far away from comparing it and understanding how it affects the MCU as a whole, just because that’s a lot. Quite frankly, as these episodes go on, more and more are going to happen in the show itself that sometimes we just can’t cover the bigger ramifications or you guys are getting a three-hour episode. So in order to avoid that, we’re going to try and cut back. The only thing I do want to say about that is I would love to understand how the branch bombing affected the MCU. That to me was my immediate thought was, everybody else was like, my God, they just killed all these people and I was like oh my God, what does this do for the MCU now? Because what does that mean? Who? I don’t know. And so that was a thought that crossed my mind. I also think they’re still facing the massive challenge of if you looked at the temporal loom, it was now coming apart on the Sacred Timeline part too. If you looked at that image, I was like, what side is the good side? You don’t know, because they both look really not in good shape. So we’re clearly facing some adversity here. So I do think it’s a slight oversimplification of we’re going to have the Multiverse completely protected. I do think maybe by the end of the show, maybe we’ll reach that point. But if they want to have a Season Three, which we don’t know, we’ll have to wait and see, that’s obviously going to not allow us to solve this problem quite as easily, I think. Either way, I do think it’s interesting the TVA is shifting to protecting these branches or at least trying to. They just took a massive blow. What that’s going to mean, I don’t know. I really don’t. But I do think they took out a lot of those loyalists. That one, oh what’s her name? The like leader of them?

Taylor: Is it like Docks?

Katie: Yeah, Docks. I wanted to slap her, man. 

Taylor: I don’t like her at all. 

Katie: I wanted to get violent because I was like, my God. But I did have to notice, and I want to point it out. The minute she saw Sylvie, her mentality changed on the dime. It wasn’t even Mobius, it wasn’t even Loki. She saw Sylvie and she was like, our mission is compromised, which I thought was really interesting.

Taylor: Well, and that could be because she knows X5 was supposed to go find her. So one of two things happened and she and X5 are clearly close. So one of two things happened to X5, either X5 is dead and Sylvie took him out or X5 is no longer, you know, aligned with them. And I have a feeling that she knows it’s the latter because she said not our mission is in jeopardy. She said our mission is compromise. So I think she knows that there’s something going on and that her right-hand man is no longer her right-hand man.

Katie: Yeah, I don’t disagree but I also think and not that I like to be all fan of Sylvie, because I’m truly, really not, especially this episode. I was like, girl, you are on my nerves. Like you have been in this episode for 5 minutes and you’re all my nerves. But I will say I think Brad even said it, X5 whatever you want to call him, she killed 400 of the hunters. She’s notorious to them. And especially he knows he’s on the wrong side. Sylvie is not going to kill B-15. Sylvie, when she was in the TVA, was not going to kill Casey because whether or not she likes the TVA, I think she understood to a degree that they’re trying the ones that are still there, are trying to do something differently. She doesn’t agree with how they’re doing it because she even says like, or something and obviously it’s along the lines. I don’t know exactly what she said, but she was like, well, you’re doing this all so well, pretty much. Like, wow, you’re really protecting the people because all those guys just got killed. So she still doesn’t agree, but she could see that the ones that are still in the TVA themselves are semi-fighting for what she’s still fighting for, or at least what she wanted.

Taylor: I was going to say, Sylvie is not really fighting anymore. She’s done.

Katie: Yeah. I mean, more of like what she wanted at the end. And so B5 and Docks I think are well aware of being against Sylvie they’re against what her mission always was and she has a reputation. She has no problem killing them. Nothing is holding her back and so I think even just her showing up, that to your point, I think some of it is not only is B5 possibly compromised, he could be dead. Clearly, he didn’t get her so like there could be that thought process. But also, we’re screwed because she’s going to come in here and murder us all.

Taylor: Yeah, I agree. You know, Sylvie managed to survive from a very young age for many, many years, and she took them all out. And honestly, even Renslayer was scared of her. So, you know, she’s got a reputation. And to your point, the vibe definitely shifted when she came into that room and it was interesting too, this is the last thing I’ll say about Loki and Sylvie kind of as a unit, it was interesting to see them use their powers together, too. And the way that they’re able to amplify each other’s powers, I think that’s super interesting. But yeah, I will be very interested to see how that plays out in Episode Three, because really both sides took some major hits, right? Like, yes, the loyalists, you know, were able to really take out a lot of branches, but then they got pretty much walloped by, you know, a Loki, Mobius, Sylvie-led team. And a lot of their Minutemen and their hunters were taken out. So, you know, it was pretty much a blow-for-blow experience and it doesn’t sound like Docks really has a ton of people left.

Katie: But wasn’t she captured anyway? I’m pretty sure they had her captured at the end. They had one of the time collars on her.

Taylor: I don’t actually remember, to be honest, if they got her. I know they got Brad, obviously, because I remember Loki and him having that conversation about the time collar being tighter than you would expect. But I don’t remember if they got Docks.

Katie: I think they did. I think they had her at the very end because that’s when they were saying, like those of them, that they didn’t kill or capture essentially, there were only a few more that got away through the doors. And I think she was standing there, captured.

Taylor: Okay. But either, you know, that just further kind of emphasizes my point. They both took some major hits. So even though the Loyalists got one over on our team, our team hit them right back and so we’re kind of starting back where we were, but with far fewer timelines and far fewer loyalists.

Katie: Well, and again, so I have two thoughts there. Again, that circles back to O.B.’s problem was there were too many branches. So is this a bandaid solution for now so the loom doesn’t break while they still try to figure out a way to override the system? Because at the end of the day, O.B. even said I could build what we need. I just need to get into it. I need to be able to put it in place. So they still have to do that, you still have to do the whole go after Kang/He Who Remains crap but for now the problem might not be as pressing so I think that’s one thing. But two, I mean, more branches can always happen. They can always be made. I mean, that’s why the TVA was there, capturing variants every single day and pruning branches every single day. You can’t get more TVA workers because they’re not going to take anymore. So you either had the number that you had and were loyal to you as the loyalists or you had the ones that are on the good side and, you know, those you lose, you lose. At the end of the day, it’s not like you’re getting a replenishment of troops any time.

Taylor: Yeah, no, that’s a good point that that kind of ever-present recruitment pipeline is gone. And so, you know, the other point is also valid. I know you don’t want to talk about the MCU at large, but this is the last thing I’ll say, it’s a quick thing. Yes, all those people were killed and that is a tragedy. But then as these other timelines come and are built, how does that it’s just an interesting thought experiment to say, well, these timelines that are forming now, these are potentially timelines that we’re going to explore in future films and movies and things. So I think that’s just something to keep in mind, as you’re seeing new timelines forming, is any one of these could be something that we’re going to explore in a Multiversal related project in the future.

Katie: Yeah, I think to that point I can only agree. I think it is interesting. My only last thing I want to just say, maybe it’s a clarification question is what did Sylvie have at the end?

Taylor: Oh, it was He Who Remains version of the Tempad. What she used to send Loki through the door in the finale.

Katie: Okay. I just didn’t recognize it right away. I thought it was a Tempad, but I wasn’t 100% sure so I just wanted to follow up. Interesting that she still has that, unsure of the ramifications of that, but I’m sure will be explored in Episode Three, because I don’t even have a theory for that. I don’t really understand how that’s going to work or what that plays into, but it will be interesting.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely. I think it’s clearly more powerful than a regular Tempad because it was a possession of He Who Remains.

Katie: Well, it’s probably able to jump around the universes, which is something we talked about.

Taylor: Yeah. So you know Sylvie potentially has,  a very, very powerful piece of technology that is got the power to do some serious, serious things, serious damage, if in the wrong hands. And it’ll be interesting to see if she keeps possession of that the whole way through this series.

Katie: Well, and it will be interesting to see, something I’m looking forward to at the end of the series is understanding where this goes. If there’s going to end up being a Season Three, if we’re going to see these people start showing up in other things, I’ll be intrigued by that. That’s something I’m going to keep my eyes open to because of the way this is going so far, it looks promising that we might see some of these characters appear. And to your point, if Mobius appears a Deadpool, I mean, does that not open a lot of other doors to other characters appearing in other things? I think it does.

Taylor: I totally agree and that’s why I’m really, really hoping that that rumor is true, because I would like to see some of these characters out in the wider MCU and not just be confined to this series. I think, you know, with this being the first show that has a season two, it’s our first real opportunity to get to really evolve with characters within a show, especially the new ones. Obviously, Loki, we know to a certain extent, and with a lot of the other shows that were about returning characters, we got that as well. But with these shows that are about newer characters, when they’re limited series, you really don’t get to evolve with the characters very much there are six, maybe nine episodes of you’re She-Hulk, but this is the first time we’ve had the opportunity to spend a longer amount of time, get to know them and now I don’t want them to just be a series that’s so separate from the rest of the MCU. Now let’s bring them in and so let’s confine them. It’s like with Moonknight, you know, eventually, you’re going to have to bring him in. Let’s just do it. 

Katie:  Yeah, I mean, I think it’s all valid. I think everything you just said is valid, and I think that’s it.

Taylor: Yeah, let’s call that. We’re going to say we’re done with Season Two, Episode Two, and make sure that you are following on your podcast platform of choice to follow us for the rest of Season Two if you have not done so already. Make sure you’ve also bookmarked and are regularly checking out our website. There are tons of goodies on there as well as a way for you to support the show if you might be so inclined, which we would genuinely appreciate because it helps us make the show better for you.

Katie: Give us a follow on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Instagram and Threads at SistersAssembled so you can keep up with us and the show and everything you need to know will be on those platforms. So make sure you give us a follow if you haven’t already. And next week we are going right into Loki Episode Three. We’re very much looking forward to it. We’re both already into this and I can actually say that positively is that I am into the show, so let’s hope it keeps its momentum because I’m a fan so far. So make sure you join us next week for that because I’m hoping it’s me just as good as Episodes One and Two. And as always, keep up with Marvel as Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.