Transcript

Taylor: Welcome back, listeners. We have an exciting show for you today because guess what? We are covering a movie, which is something that we haven’t had a ton of chances to do this year. It’s only the fourth time, and it’s the last time we’ll be covering a movie in 2023. So of course that means today’s episode is all about The Marvels, tackling our predictions, talking a little bit about the characters, where they’ve been, where we think they’re going to go, and all that good stuff that you expect from our predictions episode. So excited to dive in, analyze it a little bit, and then see you guys on the other side after the film. Without further ado, Katie, why don’t you kick us off?

Katie: I’m excited for this. I know some people aren’t. I know I’m going to also start with the pretense that we’ve already said we’re not really big Captain Marvel fans just out of preference, not really her as a character one of our favorites. And we didn’t love Captain Marvel’s movie, but I’m excited. I love Kamala, I love Monica, and I don’t have a problem with Carol Danvers so I think maybe the three of them and I think we’ve said this before. I think, you know, maybe alone, it’s not always the best, but maybe she’ll be a little bit better as a team. So I think the three of them are going to make something really good and I mean, Kamala is definitely going to make something good. Her show was hilarious. I don’t think for a second thought, she won’t so I’m pretty excited to get this going, you know?

Taylor: Yeah, definitely, I echo a lot of those thoughts. As I was watching the trailers and teasers and things getting ready for this episode, I just kept thinking like, this looks like it’s going to be a really fun film. It looks like there’s going to be a lot of really interesting characters in it and you know, to what you were saying about, you know, maybe Captain Marvel’s franchise with the one outing we’ve had so far, not being our favorite, I think that’s super fair. I think my biggest qualm is that she kind of lacks a lot of personality, she’s very like one note. Her personality is kind of monotone and it just doesn’t really give a lot but I have seen so far in the trailers, she already seems to be a little more open, has a little more personality, more jokey. And I think all of those things, in combination with the other characters that I really like, like you said, Monica, Kamala, Nick Fury’s back. There are a lot of really good people around her in this film and I think, maybe they learn from the last time to give her a little bit more or I don’t even know that she doesn’t have the personality, but let her show her personality, I think, is what really needs to happen. And I think already they’ve kind of made that adjustment and so that makes me even more excited to almost be reintroduced to the character in a way that’s way more fun than her first outing.

Katie: Yeah, I think some of that, I definitely get your feelings there. I think some of it, though, is she was supposed to be a soldier in the first one, and listen, I’m not going to pretend I watch the first one in my spare time. I’ve probably seen that movie three times, once in theaters, once for the Infinity War rewatch, and once for our replay episode which I think are the only three times I’ve seen it. But I feel as if they were trying to say, you know, she is very similar to I kind of want to say like how Bucky was in Winter Soldier. Obviously not brainwashed, although to a degree, you know, she has a job to do and she’s very focused on what she’s doing so I think that was what they were trying to convey with her being a little less lighthearted. But I do think it just came across as a little meh the entire time and so I am excited. I think there are, I think, between Kamala and Monica, I think it’s going to help bring out that a little bit more naturally as well. And I mean, we’ve also seen her now, I mean, not in anything stand-alone. Obviously, this is only technically her second movie, but we’ve seen her now in a couple of other things that she’s made appearances in and I think that can also help bridge that gap a little bit.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely and so, long story short, I’m definitely looking forward to this film. I am pumped to get back into space. We’ve been in space a couple of times this year or with space-related properties. Obviously, we had Guardians, and Secret Invasion while it took place on Earth, the Skrulls were a main character and we’ll get into some of that and how that might help lead into The Marvels. But I think I’m excited to get back into space and revisit these characters. We haven’t seen Kamala in a hot minute, so bring her back same thing with Monica. I think I just want to dive right into kind of recapping some of the theories that we’ve already tossed out about this film, because in some of our coverage after Secret Invasion wrapped up, we did talk a lot about kind of the Kree and the Skrull and what’s going on in space politics. And so just as a quick little recap, we talked a lot about that potential alliance that’s really starting to be talked about at the end of Secret Invasion and how that might play out here. That, of course, ties into Zawe Ashton’s Dar-Benn character, who is kind of a Ronan the Accuser style leader based on how she is portrayed in the trailers and so maybe that frustrates her that now Captain Marvel is talking about or helping with potentially, we don’t know, an alliance with their greatest enemy. And that goes against everything that she kind of believes in as a general. That’s one theory that we’ve thrown out. And so I think that’s kind of the biggest one coming out of Secret Invasion. But definitely wanted to just recap that one, and get it off our plates before we kind of dive in a little bit more as more trailers and more footage have come out obviously, since June/July when that show wrapped up.

Katie: Yeah and I think honestly, that leads right into I think we should rip the band-aid off of Secret Invasion because one of the things we talked about first off was as we were watching Secret Invasion, it was very much which comes first chicken egg kind of style. And I think we decided by the end very clearly that The Marvels comes after so we are following the order, the release order and that works for me. I really don’t like the back-and-forth that we did in the first few phases, couldn’t be helped in some places, but I’d like to stay relatively consistent. It’s nice, my brain likes it. But I will say it’s interesting because and the reason I want to focus on this first so we get it off the plate is now we have Nick Fury once again making an appearance. This is like Samuel L. Jackson’s 10th or 12th or something appearance in a Marvel film, he is everywhere, keep him coming because we love Nick Fury. But this is a direct continuation of his character of what just happened in Secret Invasion. I expect to hear some things I don’t know about you, but I do and so I think it’s going to be interesting. We know he’s on SABER, we’ve got a great look at SABER. I want to talk about that as well because I think we got a little bit in no, not No Way Home, Far From Home, it’s SHIELD essentially. He built space SHIELD.

Taylor: Yes, exactly and I think it’s interesting that, you know, he’s out there with Monica, which which makes sense. She is no longer with SWORD after everything that happened with Hayward.

Katie: Well, and they got her in WandaVision.

Taylor: Yeah, exactly. So after all of that, you know, it makes sense that she would team up with Fury. She knows him from when she was a little girl, more or less, trusts him and it makes sense that he would go to her. I mean, she has an incredible background, an incredible pedigree within space in terms of, you know, who her mother was, who she is. She’s a perfect free agent to come aboard and be a part of SABER. And I think what’s interesting about what we’ve seen in a lot of the trailers is that she’s looking at a jump point, which is something that we’ve really only seen a few times. If you’re looking at kind of the Guardians franchise as a whole just one time, it’s very prominent in Guardians and then we saw it actually in Endgame when they go to get fans to the beginning of the movie and they find out that the Stones have been destroyed. So jump points have been obviously part of the MCU since 2014 when the first Guardians came out, but they’re not something that we’ve really focused on a lot, especially in non-Guardians films other than like 5 minutes in Endgame. So I am excited that we’re really going to start to look at that a little bit more. That mainstream characters outside of the Guardians franchise are going to actually be interacting with them, studying them, and learning more about them. I think that’s super interesting.

Katie: I want to know why because, listen, no hate towards Fury, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned about him, he likes to mess around with things he doesn’t know, especially space-related things he doesn’t know. And so I’m very curious and we’ll get to the jump point stuff a little bit like maybe in a small, like three-minute thing in a second, because we see them a lot in this trailer or in the trailers and so that is very curious to me how often we seem to see it. But I am very intrigued as to why Nick Fury is out here using his SABER space station to look at jump points. What are you doing, Nick?

Taylor: Well, I’m going to give Nick the benefit of the doubt here.

Katie: Bold after his performance with the Tesseract.

Taylor: I know, but you know, we’ve seen some growth in Nick. We talked about this. That was the entirety of Secret Invasion is that Nicholas J. Fury was making better decisions.

Katie: Was he? Because remember, I’ve ranked him on character growth, and he actually fell pretty low.

Taylor: But there was improvement.

Katie: Yeah, like 0.5. 

Taylor: Okay well, all right. I’m going to give Nicholas J. Fury that 0.5 and say, look, we know and he’s talked about the reason that he created SABER was to protect us from, you know, the space threats. I actually think I may have made that up. I don’t know that he ever said that, but I think that’s the assumption. But to save us from those space threats like Thanos, that we just didn’t even see coming, right? Now, think about it this way. How do we think Thanos got here? Probably a jump point. How do we think most of these villains who have come from space minus Loki got here? Jump points. So to me, it makes natural sense that he’s going to want to learn more about how these things work. Is there some sort of early warning system that we can create so we know if someone is coming through and we can prepare? Is there, you know, that type of stuff. So that’s why it doesn’t totally concern me yet that he is looking at it. However, there is another possibility, of course, that he’s looking to utilize them to go further out into space. Does that fall more into Nick’s semi-reckless personality? Yes. But I do want to point out that there is the more mature responsible option on the table as well.

Katie: Well, and I also wonder if the Kree/Skrull conversations have anything to do with that as well because that’s the only, well, first off, Nick seems to be in better spirits all of a sudden.

Taylor: Yes.

Katie: Yeah, so, you know, I’ll take it. That’s fine. But I do wonder if those talks I mean, maybe just maybe, if I give him the benefit of the doubt, I can also say that maybe he’s just looking for a way to reach the Kree planet, whose name is currently escaping me.

Taylor: Hala. 

Katie: Yeah, that’s it. I knew I knew it, but I it was not coming to my brain. So maybe, just quite simply, we can’t reach Hala without a jump point and they don’t really know how to use them yet so that’s what he’s doing. That’s my benefit of the doubt for Nick Fury. Otherwise, my confidence level is pretty low.

Taylor: That’s fair. It is concerning whenever Nick is into new technology or things because he has a track record of not doing very good things with them.

Katie: He made the harvest. Enough said. 

Taylor: Yeah. I was also just going to say the entirety of the first two or three seasons of Agents of SHIELD when you find out all the things he hid.

Katie: Tahiti? 

Taylor: Well, yeah, Tahiti. There were those things that took people to different places and times and things. What were they called?

Katie: Oh, not the monuments.

Taylor: Monoliths. He hid the monoliths. Nick and anything that’s alien, they don’t have good track records.

Katie: He just doesn’t really naturally handle it well.

Taylor: Yeah so that is definitely of concern but I’m glad to see that he’s, you know, working with them. I’m glad he’s back in this, continuing to be in this franchise. I think it’s really good continuity coming out of Secret Invasion, knowing that the Skrulls are so clearly tied to Captain Marvel and everything that happened in her first film. I think that’s a really nice continuity and realistically it’s some of the best continuity that we’ve gotten since the end of Endgame. I mean, not many properties have really relied on one another or even built upon other than the little bit of not little bit but Yelena going from Black Widow to Hawkeye is really the only other strong example of two properties, well, okay, that’s not true. Wandavision into MoM. So there have been a couple, but like, not a ton.

Katie: Yeah, and I will say, actually, this one’s doing it four different ways because it’s a sequel to Secret Invasion, to Captain Marvel, Wandavision in a different direction, and Ms. Marvel. So this one is actually single-handedly bringing together four different properties, which I’m a big fan of as you were saying too. We haven’t had a lot of it. I’m just I’m thirsty for it. I just want to start connecting people. I want it to all start making sense. Obviously, I know we had some moments when Carol shows up at the end of Shang Chi, but still, this is going to be a big moment. I’m excited to connect these characters. I know Nick, we’ll see what he’s up to, he’s already hanging out with Monica. Seemed like Kamala was chillin’ until she got pulled into this and obviously we know this is going to be an end credit from Ms. Marvel coming through, pretty sure that was just a scene from the movie itself that it’s not really a hint to anything at this point, but I want to talk about those three because Monica has a line and I’m going to butcher it. I’m not going to pretend to know it verbatim, but she essentially says, Carol, can something with the light that Carol can do, she can like control it or something or use it. Monica can see it, which I don’t really know what that means and how that helps anybody but we can get there in a second and Kamala can physically make it into like, physical matter. This is the first time we’ve heard that definition, that dumbed-down definition of their powers. What are our thoughts here?

Taylor: Well, first, I think what I really liked about that was the fact that she ties them all together by saying that they’re all related to light. I think what’s interesting is we hadn’t up until this point really understood exactly what type of power, like Captain Marvel basically looks like she’s on fire every time she like, powers up. Monica, kind of phases through things, so that wasn’t exactly clear, like exactly how she was doing that. Kamala looked like she was creating glass out of nothing, so it’s important, I think, to understand exactly what type of powers they all have and I like that she kind of differentiates what each of them does. I think what I’m thinking then is what happens when you put them together, right? What happens if you put see with physical and all of that? And I think kind of going back or tying off of that, then there’s a scene in the trailer where Carol says to Monica, switch, and they actually purposefully switch places, right? Because we see them obviously doing it unintentionally throughout the trailer, it’s played for laughs. It is going to be funny to watch that happen. But it looks like at a certain point they’ve learned to control it and manipulate it to their benefit so I think it’s interesting that it’s like, in what situation is it better to have like the I don’t know, projection is the wrong word, but we’ll just say for Carol’s, like at what point is it better to do the projection of light and then have Monica come in with her power versus having Kamala come in with her power and all of those different things. So I think that’s also super interesting as it relates to how not only how are they the same, how are they different, and then how do they all interact.

Katie: Yeah, and honestly, I’m really intrigued about it because to the core and I want to get into Dar-Benn a little separately, I don’t want to skip right to her, but we know her finding and activating the sister bangle to Kamala’s is what allows her to tie these three together. Now, does she know the three of them exist? I mean, she knows Captain Marvel does. Does she know the other two? That is to be determined. I don’t know if she knew what she was doing when she did it, but I think she thought in some way she was going to be hindering Captain Marvel and I think that was all she was worried about. I am intrigued, though, because these all happened very separately, right? Captain Marvel’s was an explosion that she, instead of dying, sucked up all the radiation, essentially, like any good hero starts. And then, you know, obviously Monica has that really weird because of Wanda essentially the Hex just going in and out of it too often pretty much changes her insides, her DNA and I don’t know, that’s her transformation. And then Kamala, we know, is a mutant, the bangle helped activate it, cool. It’s weird because it’s all so different. I mean, I guess Monica’s and Captain Marvel’s are a little similar because that radiation is the same vibe but it’s weird because Kamala is a mutant and that’s been confirmed to us. So I guess I’m a little confused about how she plays in here naturally.

Taylor: It’s interesting because I actually think the odd man out or odd lady out in the situation is actually Monica, because if you think about this when you watch Dar-Benn in the trailers, she has the staff or I don’t know what you would call it, but she has the weapon that’s very similar to Ronan the Accusers. That’s why I always had a tie her with him. She has that and she uses it and she smacks it against the sister bangle and it creates almost like what Ronan had done when he had infused the power stone into his staff, right? So I think that’s a tie between Kree and Kamala’s origins, so there you have Carol and Kamala. But then who’s the odd one out? The girl who got her powers from the Scarlet Witch.

Katie: Yeah. I mean, I think there are two ways to look at that, because I think if you look at the powers themselves, Kamala is the odd man out because of being a mutant. 

Taylor: Correct. 

Katie: The bangle activated something within her to allow that gene to activate, which is kind of its own thing because I’m pretty sure the mutants usually just kind of happen. There’s not normally something that activates it.

Taylor: Sress, but I don’t know how putting on a bangle activates your stress.

Katie: Yeah, that’s what I mean. I don’t really understand the science behind that connection, but I mean, I could see Monica and I can see where Carol, their powers, their origins are very similar. Radiation, cool. And then to your point, the other way to look at it is that Kree connection is what marries Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel together, leaving Monica out. I think at the end of the day, yes, great, you have a triangle, and you are able to form the connection. I just think when I look at the power side of it, I don’t understand how Ms. Marvel is getting wrapped into it, unless you argue that the bangle is able to do it because she wears the sister bangle.

Taylor: I think that’s probably what we’re going to see is the result there because don’t forget there is some sort of voiceover in one of the trailers where she says, I think Carol asks her like, where’d you get the bangle? And Kamala goes, I don’t know, my grandma sent it to me in the mail. So like, there is definitely discussion about the bangle because they’re trying to understand probably what is it Dar-Benn has but then that is why, you know, Kamala’s involved. I think realistically, if the bangle isn’t involved and I don’t know that we can definitively say that the bangle is the reason that the powers are switching, because I think you can hypothetically say maybe there’s something that Dar-Benn did to affect Captain Marvel’s powers and because her powers generate from a similar way as Monicas, that’s why Monica got roped in but the only reason that Kamala’s even there is because she wears the sister bangle. So you can also look at it that way too. It’s more about trying to get at Captain Marvel from the origin of her powers, which are inherently Kree, and not exactly the same as Monica’s because hers are from the Scarlet Witch, but the radiation kind of ties them together to your point, and then with Kamala, it’s that bangle. And I think that’s what we’re going to see in the film, is the bangle is really what kind of gives her her place on the team in terms of the switching.

Katie: Yeah, I will say I’m intrigued to get hopefully more information about that bangle because we have had a ton of conversations, not just about the bangle but about Shang-Chi’s rings and how they’re connected because again, I brought it up earlier, Carol was in that and credits scene of that movie, talking about the Ten Rings calling to something.

Taylor: Well, and then furthermore, you know, there’s a lot of conversation then about the Ten Rings looking super similar to Kang’s fortress in Quantumania. So there are definitely a lot of potential connections when it comes to the bangle and I’m glad that they are going to be front and center in this film because I hope that it means answers.

Katie: I agree. I think if we don’t get answers, I think we were cheated. Because I think at this point we need to start getting, this again said this already, this is a sequel to four different properties. First off, semi-unheard of in these last few phases because even I don’t count Infinity War and Endgame because that was going to be a be-all-end-all for everything anyway. But if you think about it, I mean like Avengers is an example of one that did this, that was a sequel to a ton of different properties. So I think just having that, we deserve to start getting answers about this kind of stuff and I mean, technically, I guess we could argue depending on the information we get, it’s semi a sequel to Shang-Chi because if we get certain information, it helps fill in the blanks about his Ten Rings. So I’m excited. I’m hoping we don’t gloss over that there are sister bangles, that these are Kree technology, that clearly they’re connected because Dar-Benn is using hers and it’s affecting not just Kamala, but it’s able to affect, you know, Captain Marvel and her powers. I want to understand and I hope we go into it.

Taylor: I agree. I think that brought up a couple of things for me. One, in a lot of the scenes where they’re talking actually throughout most of the trailers, but I notice it a few times, especially when they’re talking about the bangle, the song that they play in the trailers just keeps repeating another dimension, another dimension, another dimension, because I had my subtitles on which I normally don’t do, but I found it very useful this time.

Katie: I always have mine on.

Taylor: I was like, okay, that’s interesting. Are you literally hinting at us? We talked about Kamala being from another dimension, but now to go back to our favorite question is a dimension a universe? Is she a descendant of Multiversal people? Who knows? I don’t know.

Katie: What if she’s a Nexus being?

Taylor: I can’t. I can’t go there.

Katie: I’m just saying as we throw the questions out, that’s another one we could put out there is maybe she’s a Nexus being but I get your thought process. I don’t really want to open that debate back up until somebody tells me an actual answer or gives me a real hint. But I do think that’s going to play a part because remember too, Kamala’s bangle opened a rift and that’s how she went back in time. I bring that up solely because Dar-Benn has a sister bangle.

Taylor: And we’re in the middle of Loki.

Katie: And we’re in the middle of Loki where everyone just blew up. So I feel like there’s a lot of potential here for things to start going very wrong and it’s interesting because as we bridge the gap into Dar-Benn and who she is, she is part of I don’t know if they’re called the Accusers themselves, but she is actually a part of that so her and Ronan were connected in that sense. I think we talked about this a while ago and something else but they’re pretty much at this point like a rogue fraction of the Kree people, like the Kree themselves don’t follow them. They’re just their own kind of psycho group, if you will and they have their own beliefs, as we all saw with Ronan. Seems like Dar-Benn has a bone specifically to pick with Captain Marvel. No one should be shocked with kind of the background of Captain Marvel. That’s not new news. But it’s interesting because Captain Marvel makes a comment and this actually kind of opens the door to what Dar-Benn is going to be doing and what her point of like what her villain arc is, is she wants to take out the planets that they care about. So once again, guys, Earth is…

Taylor: In the crosshairs. 

Katie: Yeah, possibly going to get blown up. We never know. It’s always good when that happens. 

Taylor: Always a target, never a quiet day on good ole Earth.

Katie: No, if there isn’t an alien invasion, I’m shocked.

Taylor: I know, truly. Yeah, no, I did catch that. I think it’s in a couple of the trailers that like, leaning towards that being kind of her journey, that’s what she’s doing. To what end? I’m not really sure, other than to chip away at Cap Marvel’s morale, maybe? Unclear, but I do want to focus on the word planets, because think about it this way, other than Captain Marvel, the three other main characters of this film, Fury, Monica, and Kamala, are really Earth-based people. Yes, they’ll go into space, but in the space outside of Earth, none of them have been to another planet. None of them have visited other parts of the universe, so I think that’s interesting as well because Carol says other planets that we call home, well, who’s we? Because you’re not talking to the people in the room with you.

Katie: So I’m thinking that’s just her reference to other planets that she is calling home but she kind of just put it across as one big bubble word. One of them, I assume, is Hala. And I assume it’s Hala because at the end of the day, beyond what happened with Captain Marvel there and whatever, because she’s also now like half Kree, don’t forget that fact. Dar-Benn, like I said, is pretty much a separatist group. They are not, like when I say Kree any other time that I’m not referring to Dar-Benn and the Accuser group like that is not, same with Ronan. He was out there doing crap on his own time.

Taylor: We watched him defy the government of the Kree in Guardians.

Katie: Yeah, like he was doing that on his own time. He went rogue, so I’m not, I wouldn’t be shocked if she went after Hala. Especially if our theory of Hala and the Kree and the Skrulls having the peace talks is part of what’s frustrating her and getting her aggravated. Wouldn’t shock me for a second, if she wants to destroy Hala. The other one, and God, I keep forgetting I’m so bad at remembering names until I hear a full movie and then I hear it multiple times but it’s the planet where they’re all dancing in that one scene. Captain Marvel has on like that really nice dress and I don’t know if he’s a famous actor, but he’s well known, and is playing like a prince there.

Taylor: Aldana. He’s the prince of Aldana, Prince Yan.

Katie: Yes, I wonder if that’s another one that Captain Marvel has a connection to that she is referencing.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think, you know, we actually see a scene, I believe, of Dar-Benn with Prince Yan. So he’s clearly there when Dar-Benn is there, which means probably Dar-Benn is on the attack at some point on Aldana.

Katie: Well, we also see a scene and I assume it’s Aldana and actually looks very much like a Greek coastline.

Taylor: Yeah, with the white buildings.

Katie: Yeah, but we see the jump point above it and the water getting sucked up into the jump point. Again, we don’t have any information on what’s wrong, maybe with jump points or maybe if you know someone sitting on the other side of the jump point, I don’t know. We’re going to find out but that, to me also confirms there’s a likelihood that it’s under attack to some degree.

Taylor: Yeah, I agree and I think it’s going to be interesting. You know, I don’t think we’ve had a real multi-planetary threat outside of Guardians before.

Katie: Yeah, okay. I didn’t know where you were going with that. I was going to be like Ronan literally was and well, Thanos.

Taylor: Well, right. I mean, obviously the big guy.

Katie: Yeah, but even in the process of getting the Stones, he was in, he was really out there destroying planets.

Taylor: But we never saw him do that, right? Like we never interacted with him. Even in Guardians, he was having other people do it for him. He had Loki do it for him, try to do it for him on Earth. He was never like we saw the flashbacks with Gamora and what he did to her people, but we never saw a full-like experience of Thanos going, taking a population in half and leaving the planet. So that’s not something like it’s obviously implied many times it’s directly said, but we’ve never truly seen it. And so outside of the Guardians franchise, we really don’t have these crazy multi-planetary threats. So I’m actually very excited to see how that all plays out with different characters and kind of what we’re used to.

Katie: No, I agree. It’ll be interesting, especially because, you know, I’m excited to see Ms. Marvel kind of in action with everybody, specifically her just because she’s kind of a left fielder, she’s on the younger side. I think we threw around her maybe for Marvel’s sake, ever joining a Young Avengers. I don’t think that will happen at this point because she clearly has a team but to rotate a little bit back to Dar-Benn. I’m intrigued by this character because I’m going to ask the dumb question of if she’s so angry, where has she been all these years?

Taylor: Yeah, the ever-present question when it comes to Captain Marvel, isn’t it? Not only for her but also for her villains. Yeah, I mean, my best guess is that maybe she’s PO’d, but the peace treaties are the last straw or maybe she’s PO’d licking her wounds, doing whatever. We also don’t really know what Captain Marvel’s been doing and that’s actually something that happens and that’s talked about in one of the trailers or featurettes or something where they’re like, yeah, we haven’t seen her in a while. Like, it’s going to be interesting to hear kind of what she’s been up to. So maybe they actually had like a recent interaction and that’s what starts it and then you throw on top the Kree and the Skrull potential alliance and the peace treaties, or it could just be Dar-Benn has been nursing this wound for years and years. I mean, think about Killmonger, how long he nursed that one in his long game. Maybe she was amassing soldiers, maybe she was amassing power, maybe she was looking for the bangle and she finally found it and now she’s ready. I mean, I love all the rumors about this is kind of an interesting kind of parallel, the rumors that you know, the three big people had to die for Thanos to be ready to capture the Stones. You had to lose Odin, you had to lose Ego and I think the last one they always talk about is the Ancient One that with those three people out of the way, Thanos was able to make bolder, bigger moves. Maybe instead of it being three people out of the way for Dar-Benn, it’s that she needed to find that bangle and she’s been searching for 25-30 however many years since she last interacted with Captain Marvel and now, now she’s ready. And maybe Kamala activating her bangle helped Dar-Benn find it, and that just accelerated that process.

Katie: Honestly, I would think tying it to the Ten Rings and the fact that they said they were calling to something.

Taylor: Also that.

Katie: I think having those an active piece of weaponry, having the second bangle being activated, I think that’s the strongest part of that theory as well of it just being like, well, and we don’t know if these are the only pieces out there, but especially having the sister bangle be activated and being used consistently, I wouldn’t be shocked if it does open the door. I’m just so ready to learn more about these. Like, I think we are going to get a lot more answers once we do.

Taylor: Yeah, I have to think so. I mean, Captain Marvel, we already know, like I said, I mentioned a few minutes ago, you know, she’s interrogating Kamala a little bit about them. She wants to know because she wants to understand her enemy. She’s going to have to understand her enemy if she plans on fighting her so I definitely think that they’re going to be even more front and center, I think, than Ms.Marvel. Think about it, Ms. Marvel, we were also grappling with, well, how is Kamala doing these things? Like, what about her is activated with the bangle. Now we have that answer. She’s a mutant. She’s ready to go. She understands that her DNA isn’t quite like the average human beings. Great. Cool. We all know I have my qualms about it, but I’m moving on. Now, it’s not about Kamala. It’s about what she wears on her wrists and the sister bangle that Dar-Benn has, how they’re related, where do they come from, and how do we stop them? All these variables that you need to know when you’re going into battle with someone, those are the things that they’re going to want to attempt to find out and as they find them out, we find them out, and if they find out that they have other pieces of jewelry that they’re related to, even better.

Katie: I’m intrigued because I wonder if this is going to be a movie we actually get an ending to. I wonder if we’re actually going to get a conclusion like, I’m thinking of Ronan the Accuser, I think it’s the best example of how we have Guardians, we see the Guardians’ origin, cool, cool, cool, and then Ronan tries to kill everybody as one does, and they stop him with the dance off because that is naturally that’s naturally the Guardians way to do things. I wonder if because that was not saying Ronan wasn’t a threat, but that felt very isolated because I think at the time Guardians itself was so isolated, but they also wanted to keep them that way until they started connecting more of the dots because remember, that’s 2014. So we still had four years before we needed to connect too many dots anywhere. Because this isn’t isolated anymore, I mean, you got Nick Fury up in space on a high-tech space station that clearly there’s an invasion or something happens like Dar-Benn goes after at some point, cause you can see everybody is rushing around. It looks like they’re getting ready to handle something like.

Taylor: Kamala and Nick have the gun that they’re passing to one another and she’s using her powers up there.

Katie: Yeah, like it’s clear that they go under attack but you have Nick Fury up in space. You have Kamala, who is inherently a space-like being, she is not, again, back to her origin, she is a mutant. She is not, you know, made from the radiation that Monica and Captain Marvel are. So I think it’s interesting because I’m like, are we going to see this end or is this going to be something that the effects become so large it actually propels almost a tidal wave forward into something else?

Taylor: It’s a good question. I would like it to not really end. I think I mean, let me let me say this. I think Dar-Benn is going to be defeated, I don’t think she is going to be a multi-movie villain. You know, I think she is in many ways a means to an end to get us the bangle, to get us the information that we need about these space or multi-dimensional objects that clearly are important and are actually potentially really good conduits between franchises and things that connecting things in ways that we’ve been complaining about haven’t been connected. So I do want to say that I think that plot point is going to wrap up in this film. I don’t think we’re going to see Dar-Benn after this, but I hope that the rest of it is left open-ended. My only thing is and I know we’ve talked about this a lot, and at this point, I don’t even know where the slate stands. I saw something today that maybe Deadpool was pushed back and delayed. I don’t know how true that was because I didn’t think that it was a super reputable source and I didn’t have time to double-check it.

Katie: I’m pretty sure it was. I think it was switched with Captain Marvel or sorry, Captain America. They moved Captain America up and they pushed Deadpool back. I think that is what I was hearing.

Taylor: Interesting. Okay. All that to say, clearly, our timeline is in flux. Our slate is in flux. And it’s tough to look at the slate and use that as a basis for anything right now. Obviously, with the ongoing SAG strike as well, that continues to be a really large variable. But if my memory serves at the last iteration of the slate, we didn’t have anything space-related until Fantastic Four, which is inherently, I think, going to be space cause it has to be space and Multiversal and all those things in order to get us to where we need to be after that. They also get powers from being in space, and though we’re not probably going to see that in the film, they are spacey people. That’s what they are.

Katie: So it’s interesting you brought that up because as in my research, and I’m not even going to pretend because, you know, a lot of the times I do research and I like surface level get it but not enough to get it. You know when they say if you can explain it to other people, you understand it?

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: Can’t do that but I think that I can at least surface level tell you when I was doing my research, there are ties to I believe it is Dar-Benn and something else that I’m not remembering at the moment, and the Silver Surfer.

Taylor: For those of you who may not have been paying attention in the early 2000s, the Silver Surfer is the sequel to the original Fantastic Four film where we had the lovely Mr. Christopher Evans as Johnny Storm in his first time out with Marvel.

Katie: Yes and the Silver Surfer as a character, if you didn’t watch that because to be fair, wasn’t as good as the first one. He’s pretty much the like messenger of Galactus. Like as soon as Silver Surfer shows up, you’re like, uh-oh I don’t like this and I want to go home but you can’t because Galactus is about to eat it. So pretty much if this is something that could be bigger and because you brought up Fantastic Four being the next property that would make some sense to connect to this one, I’m just going to throw it out there though, that, you know, and we’ve talked about Galactus being a next possible threat in the future as well.

Taylor: Yeah, for seven, eight, nine. 

Katie: Yeah so I’m just saying, could we be sowing just a couple small seeds just to have it prepped ready? Because keep in mind, Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars are crap hitting the fan like we thought Infinity War and Endgame, were going to be crazy. Especially Secret Wars is going to be a different level of crazy and remember they said, well, Mr. Kevin Feige is saying it’s pretty much it’s almost a soft reboot of the entire MCU. So is there a possibility we’re going to have one small seed just thrown down here that maybe we won’t even fully notice it and the next thing you know, it’s getting called back to later on.

Taylor: I just don’t know and I have two reasons why, two primary reasons. One, we weren’t, oh that’s not true. That’s not true. All right. I just blew up my own first reason I was going to say we weren’t talking about the Multiverse and time travel until Endgame but then we rewatched Doctor Strange, and in 2016, they were planting seeds.

Katie: Exactly and that’s what I mean, it doesn’t need to be something we’re going to sit there and be like, oh my God, this is what this means. Because when we were watching Doctor Strange in 2016, I sure as heck wasn’t like, the next phases are totally going to be the Multiverse, that’s definitely what’s coming next.

Taylor: I didn’t even understand what a Multiverse was. I mean, I don’t understand what a Multiverse is now.

Katie: I was going to say was what.

Taylor: I didn’t even fully grasp that was like a thing, you know?

Katie: But that’s what I mean so like they’re saying all that in 2016 we did not and then, yeah, maybe we didn’t touch time travel until Endgame but at the end of the day, 2016, we had three years where we had already been talking about the Multiverse. So I’m just putting it out there that it could be a seed. I wouldn’t even be shocked, I mean, I don’t really know a lot about the Silver Surfer, off the top of my head, because we haven’t had the Fantastic Four in the MCU yet. And those movies quite simply were coming out when I was a toddler. But I mean, I wouldn’t be shocked if we had almost like an Adam Warlock scene. That would be kind of cool, maybe less, less clear but along that same level of like, oh just a small little like you might not get it if you don’t do some deep dives or you listen to somebody break down these last few scenes or something. 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely valid. I like it, I like the idea of setting something up for the far future. I think it does, knowing the soft reboot is something that Kevin has floated with us. It does make it harder for me to think that they’re already setting stuff up because if you’re rebooting like, what’s the point, right? If you’re going to, you know, tease a Silver Surfer or something like that, only for him cause I don’t think they’re going to do Silver Surfer in the Fantastic Four film because they’ve already done it in a Fantastic Four film. They have plenty of other villains. Obviously it has to be Doctor Doom because Battleworld. So yeah, that would be a very crowded film so I thought they were going to get the Silver Surfer in that film unless there’s an end credits setting up something later, but then it still comes back to okay, but you’re doing a soft reboot, so if you’re doing that, why are you setting something up? You know what I mean? I think that’s where I’m struggling.

Katie: Which is fair. It also depends on how they handle the soft reboot and what exactly they mean by that, because, I mean, it’s not like we’re going to see all of a sudden a new and I keep saying this example just because there’s a connection here. We’re not going to see a new Shang-Chi. You know what I mean? That’s our like Simu Liu is here to stay as he should and we’re not going to see that change. So I think it depends on what their definition of a soft reboot is, quite frankly.

Taylor: Yeah, no, I agree. I just think that’s where I’m getting hung up. I think that because I like your theory but to me, it’s almost like a wasted Easter egg. It’s kind of like a little bit like that Adam Warlock one where it didn’t seem like for a really, really long time we were going to pay it off or the ultimate wasted Easter egg: Mordo.

Katie: We don’t talk about it on this podcast anymore. I refuse to talk that.

Taylor: I know, but it is the perfect example of a wasted Easter egg and I just don’t want to waste a Silver Surfer like we wasted Mordo.

Katie: But again, I’ll say you brought up a great example right there. Adam Warlock we sat on for almost ten years. That was an end credits scene, we sat on, oh I just thought about this is not related to this, but I’m gonna throw it out. If we’re doing a soft reboot, maybe we will finally see Mordo come to fruition at some point, if it’s semi-rebooted, who knows? Maybe it’s not the end of all of this.

Taylor: You know what? From your lips to Kevin Feige’s ears.

Katie: Yeah because maybe it’s not the end. Who knows? I mean, we did sit on Adam Warlock for a really long time. So, you know, maybe if we get something here, we’ll sit on, especially if it’s for phases, 7-9. I mean, that’s not at least until like 2028, 2029. 

Taylor: I’m going to hit a different decade of my life by that time and I’d like to not think about those years.

Katie: Well, I’m just saying, if you think about how long we sat on Adam, I mean, think about us in 2014. Or was he in Guardians 2?

Taylor: He was the second one. 

Katie: Think about us in 2016.

Taylor: Was that 2016?

Katie: I’m pretty sure. Well, yeah, because 2018 was Infinity War already.

Taylor: Dang, I thought it was.

Katie: What do you think it was?

Taylor: I think you might be right but either way, whether it’s 14, 15, 16, it’s still a long time, like even from 2016 to 2023, that’s 7 years. Then you add one for each successive year. Like to your point, it doesn’t matter which year it came out, but it is a really, really long time to pay it off.

Katie: So I don’t know, maybe that’s to your point, an end credit, if we want to get right into those predictions, maybe that’s one of those end credits where we set up something there.

Taylor: Yeah, let’s do them. You know, it’s funny because I know we do it. It’s always what we do, it’s tradition. It is a part of these episodes and yet I forgot to think about them so they’re coming off the cuff today, my friends.

Katie: Well, you’ve had some bad ones when you go off the cuff though.

Taylor: I know I’ve had some real stupid ones and I would like to not enumerate them, so I’m going to try to redeem myself today. Mid-Credits, all right, mid-Credits I know we always say it’s traditionally from the movie in about 50% of the time now we’re still right about it. So I’m going to say, do, do, do, do, I’m going to go with Ms. Marvel. It’s a Ms. Marvel related piece because I think she is the character who has the most aggressive trajectory right now and I don’t mean it in a bad way, but just in the sense that I feel like there’s a lot of eggs going into the Kamala Khan basket. Obviously, we talked a lot, we had a whole episode about what’s happening with her in the comics. She’s one of our first mutants. I don’t think she’s going to meet a mutant necessarily, but I do think that it’s going to be Kamala related in some set. Maybe it’s setting up a season two for her, actually, now that, you know, Marvel’s reworked how they’re doing TV, maybe it’s an unannounced up until this point season two for her to get her ready to maybe meet some X-Men because now she canonically belongs with them in the comics. That would be great. So I’m going to go with that as my Mid-Credits something Kamala related, setting up potentially a season two. Then my end credit, I’ve already kind of hinted it could be a Silver Surfer, that’s kind of what we were just talking about. But if I’m going to not use that and come up with something different, you know, I think I do think I’m going to stick with Fantastic Four. I’m going to go with two different options here. It’s either going to be Fantastic four, because I think you need to start talking about it. I know they haven’t announced the cast yet, but this could be a really interesting way to do it, actually. It’s not their traditional method. I think right now, with so much of the changes going on at Marvel, they are trying things differently and I think it could be a really interesting new way to do something where they’re announcing a casting, you know, via an end credits scene so maybe we get our first hint at our Reed Richards instead of John Krasinski, so that’s one option. But I do like the idea of tying into the Fantastic Four, our next space-related opportunity or film or property. And then my other thing, my other option going off of kind of what we were talking about with Episode Four of Loki is of course Loki related. Something that’s tying into that show, whether that’s Loki on the Sacred Timeline, whether that’s them doing something with the Multiverse, tying Multiverse and space a little bit more together, something along those lines. I think we’ve talked about it, the idea that there’s an opportunity to tie a show in a movie when they’re coming out concurrently, it’s not an opportunity they’ve taken thus far, but again, they’re trying new things, they’re experimenting. Maybe this is the time they do that. So in summary, I’m going to go Kamala for mid and either Fantastic Four/Silver Surfer or Loki for my end.

Katie: Okay, so I for the middle I like the Kamala one. My only other option, I think if we kind of follow what we think of tying it to the movie itself would be something with the jewelry.

Taylor: I would love that. Yes.

Katie: Yeah, I think I mean, we already had that and again, I keep saying it, but we already had that Shang-Chi one where we kind of were already referencing something there. So I wouldn’t be against, you know, I’m hoping the movie helps clarify the connection between them, but I wouldn’t be against kind of seeing them physically, kind of starting connecting more or starting to connect more. I also think maybe are there more out there? That’s a great question to ask and so I would kind of like to understand that and and start putting those pieces together. I wouldn’t be against, though, like you were saying, a Kamala related one more specifically. I think obviously I threw out the Silver Surfer one a little bit for the second one. I like your Loki one as well. We talked about that when we were covering the Loki episodes. I kind of want to say something with Kang, though.

Taylor: I like it. I’m not against it.

Katie: I know and I’m not against it but I want to just say it because as we already threw out, this jewelry, I mean, the rings kind of look like Kang’s stuff in Quantumania. We’ve talked about that during Quantumania’s time with our podcast. And I don’t know, I would be intrigued to see if, you know, maybe we don’t get the jewelry related one for a mid-credits we get a more specific one for the second one and we get something relating to Kang somehow tying into the Council of Kang’s or even to the big three that were that seemed to be, I don’t know, maybe leading the Council of Kang’s that we saw at the end of Quantumania just to connect to that storyline. I think that kind of also can help marry the Loki part because we lost Victor Timely. So you know, there’s that and so I think that might be able to bring a lot of these pieces into one place.

Taylor: That’s exactly what I was going to say when you brought up Kang. The idea that, you know, and keep in mind as you’re listening to this, that when the movie comes out, we will be at the same time watching Loki Episode Six. So barring that, we don’t know yet how that’s going to shake out. If there’s a Kang that appears in Loki at the end because I don’t think that at this point any of the Kangs, and this is a little bit of a Loki thing, but I don’t think at this point any of the Kangs are necessarily going to be the big bad of the show. But if they do appear, it would be nice to have that then continued into an end credits scene here to kind of loop in Quantumania. Now you’re looping in Loki and you’re starting to build these connections because I think this film is a really and we’ve talked about this throughout the episode, films in a really, really good spot to be able to start being that connector that we have so longed for basically since we took our pause after Endgame and so I think that’s going to be really, really important.

Katie: Yeah so I think I don’t know if some of those are going off a fact or if some of those are going off of purely what I hope but I think this you said it kind of the words right out of my mouth. This film has a lot of potential. It is a second to four things. I mean, come on, we have to have something. I would say four and a half because of the Shang-Chi and credit. So I have to think there’s potential there and I mean, we’ve talked about it in a couple of the episodes recently. We don’t really have a lot coming up that should usher in Kang very well. So other than end credits, I don’t know how else we’re going to do it.

Taylor: I couldn’t agree more, my friend. I think with that, with our usual look at the mid and end credit scenes, we’re going to call it a wrap on our predictions for The Marvels. If y’all haven’t gotten your tickets yet, definitely make sure that you do that. Make your plans, make your back to back screening plans for The Marvels and Loki Episode Six. We are doing a full night of movie, recording, Loki, recording on Thursday the ninth so that’s where you’ll catch us. Make sure you make your own Marvel evening plans and follow us on your podcast platform of choice so you can keep up with us through the rest of our Marvel’s coverage and the final few episodes of Loki, as well as checking out the website for all of our updates, blog posts, all those goodies on there, and to support the show, if you would be so inclined.

Katie: You can also follow us on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Threads on Instagram at SistersAssembled. You can be keeping up with us there. You’ll know when everything is going down, so make sure you guys give us a follow on whatever platform you prefer or both of them or all three of them, whatever you want to do. And as Taylor was saying, teeing it up, we are getting ready for the end of Loki already and The Marvels, both coming at us very quickly technically on the same day. Well, both ways it’s technically on the same day because if you’re a Thursday watcher, they’ll be on Thursday and if you’re a Friday watcher, they’ll both be on Friday. So make sure you guys are getting ready. It’s going to be a big Marvel weekend. Super excited, we have not had one of these in a long time. So get ready. Keep up with all of Marvel’s content because Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.