Transcript

Taylor: Hello, hello listeners, and welcome back to Sisters Assembled, where we are continuing our breakaway coverage from The Marvels film and covering the different topics that we didn’t get a chance to go deep enough into in our initial reactions episode. So this episode we’re going to be focusing on intergalactic politics and the things that happened in the film that may have further ramifications for different properties and things we might see in the future. So super excited to dive a little bit deeper into this one because we definitely didn’t touch on it nearly enough in the reactions episode. So it is time to break it down and dive deep into this episode. Katie, as always, why don’t you kick us off?

Katie: I’m excited about this one because I really think we never get to talk about this stuff because I just don’t think it’s a priority in a lot of the films and quite frankly, I think if you take the Kree and you take the Skrulls and you just take them from even just this movie, you might say it’s still not that important. And if you, you know, go into Secret Invasion, you might say still not that important but when you really look at the line of the story, starting with The Marvels and where it’s coming from, I mean, we have what now three, four properties that have dealt with some of this, had dealt with some of the political stands between the Kree and the Skrulls, what that’s look like, everything of that nature. It’s actually a lot more important than I think we’re giving the credit to it and I’m excited because we don’t really get to do a lot of the not that this is going to be like a political talk by any means, but we don’t get to see that aspect of the universe in this way and so I’m really pumped to do this episode.

Taylor: Yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up. The different properties that have talked about, whether it’s just the Kree politics, just the Skrull politics, or their kind of relationship to one another. I think it’s one of the few pieces of storyline that we’ve actually seen tie over from the Infinity Saga in a really meaningful way. Obviously, we’ve seen characters develop and things like that, but if you look back, you know, even starting with the first Guardians film, you have Ronan the Accuser, and that’s kind of where it all starts. Then, of course, you have Captain Marvel’s beginning movie where we get to meet her, her intro movie. That of course, deals a lot with it. Then we have Secret Invasion, now this film and we’ll get to this in a little bit later but the potential for this political kind of conflict between the two to then branch out and bring in new characters, which I think is interesting. So it is this really interesting kind of thread between the Infinity Saga and where we are now, and it was cool to be able to see from the mid-nineties when Captain Marvel takes place to now, how this has kind of all evolved with her in the center, but also with some of our other franchises being involved as well. So it’s a really, really fascinating plot point, I think, and I’m excited that we finally get a little bit of downtime to actually dive deep into it and talk about the different points of connection, the evolution, especially of the Kree political stance, because that is super fascinating to me. So yes, let’s dive in because I am excited. I think the first thing I want to talk about is just kind of the evolution of the Kree politics and kind of that timeline because I think it can be a little confusing if you think about all of the different places we talked about or we see them. I just named a few, obviously starting in Captain Marvel, then we see them in the Guardians, then we don’t really see them in Secret Invasion, though they’re obviously mentioned with the peace talks and now in The Marvels. And then there are the important flashbacks that we see in The Marvels for kind of how we bridge that gap. So the first thing I want to talk about is the Supreme Intelligence because I think that’s really important and not something that I ever really thought about as we talk about the difference between the Kree society in Captain Marvel and the Kree society in Guardians. As we know now from the flashbacks in The Marvels, she goes and literally destroys the Supreme Intelligence, which, based on what Dar-Benn was telling us, sets them into a civil war. Now, where I kind of am getting confused and Katie, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, we then see the Kree society in 2014 when Guardians comes out and you see the schism, right? You see those who are led by Ronan the Accuser, and kind of that Accuser, more hard-line Kree, which then Dar-Benn is kind of the successor of and you see kind of what I would consider a more mainstream party in the Kree politics, who is working more on kind of alliances and things like that. To me, I was then shocked to see that Dar-Benn was the one leading the alliance with the Skrulls but that’s a whole nother part of this conversation.

Katie: Was she leading it or was she?

Taylor: Yeah, Yeah, we’ll get to that but I definitely want to get your thoughts on kind of how one led to the other and the destruction of the Supreme Intelligence led to what we saw in Guardians because I think that’s really important to understand and it’s kind of confusing to me. 

Katie: It is a little confusing because I think Guardians focuses, of course, on Ronan. That’s the whole idea, he is the whole plot thread, he brings in Thanos, and that’s how this is all connected. I think if you look at it just from that perspective, it doesn’t necessarily seem weird. They’re calling him an extremist and that’s how he’s painted. He is Kree, but he doesn’t have the same ideals that all of the Kree people have or that the majority of the Kree people even have. I think they do a good job in Guardians of painting it because he teams up with Thanos and from the get-go, we’re like, this guy we already know is not a good guy and so we’re seeing that connection. I think from that perspective, it doesn’t seem strange that you have that because of the civil war, I don’t think it seems strange that you have that dynamic. I do understand, though, that the part of the good Kree empire that we see, I mean, does not match what we pretty much see in The Marvels. For lack of not because I can’t think it through, but because I just have this feeling, I think it was just simply overlooked. I think it was just one of those things that they didn’t quite match the continuity because again, how long do we see the positive side of the Kree in the Guardians? Not really that long. It’s all about Ronan, and that’s the main focus on the Kree side so I just quite simply think they overlooked that little detail, kind of forgot that we’ve seen parts of the Kree empire since The Marvels or sorry, since Captain Marvel and so here we were in The Marvels and they don’t quite add up. Granted, again, this is technically a sequel, so if you take out the Guardians, well, it’s not that weird either, because we don’t even have to think about Ronan at all or anything of that nature, and one film to the other makes perfect sense.

Taylor: Yeah, I think you actually crystallized what that confusion was for me because I do kind of get like you were saying, it makes sense, civil war, no one singular AI entity running the Kree empire, cool. Now there are two factions, which we definitely saw play out in Guardians 1. Perfect, that part, like you said, that makes sense. I’m aligned, I get it. I loved what you were saying about how we saw a functioning Kree empire in 2014, but now we’re looking at 2024/5 somewhere about is the math that we’ve done and they’re completely they have no sun, they have no water. None of this where ten years ago we saw a functioning empire and I think what is confusing to me is there seemed to be an immediate downfall of the Kree once Captain Marvel took away the Supreme Intelligence. I could understand maybe the argument of saying, well, it took a while for Kree society to completely crack apart but from Dar-Benn’s flashbacks, it seems like it was a pretty quick downfall. There was the Civil War, it destroyed the entire society, their sun went out, they had no water, any of that and that’s not at all depicted in Guardians. It seems to be the little bit that we do see a relatively thriving society, I mean, at least to the point where they’re able to reach out to other societies. I believe they’re trying to get an agreement with the Nova at that time. You know, they’re strong enough to be able to go to a society like the Nova, which we saw is very, you know, advanced, very strong at that time. And, they’re able to be at the bargaining table. Clearly, they have to be offering something or why would the Nova even be at the bargaining table and be willing to have a discussion with them? I do think that the part that really I struggle with is that lack of continuity because I love that they went back and taught us all about what she did to the Supreme Intelligence because that was technically a continuity error from the first movie, really, because that’s completely different from the little bit of the Kree society we saw in Guardians one. So in fixing it, they kind of made something else break so that’s kind of where I’m getting stuck there.

Katie: Yeah, again, I would say I guess there’s like almost three ways to look at it. One, it’s just a continuity error that they forgot in Guardians that they showed us that and they just didn’t include it, unfortunately, and so here we are. If you just take Guardians out of the equation in that little I mean, it’s really like maybe a minute of the entire film if that. If you just take that out or you just don’t really pay attention to it, I could see them being like, well, we totally forgot that was there. We’ve done what we’ve done. I think you can also look at it if you want to throw the theories out there if you want to look at it in the storyline that it was all done on purpose, maybe there was a version of the Kree Empire thriving back in 2014 when the other side who won and I’m going to do air quotes here, won the civil war the positive side may have gained control. Is that to say that lasted? I don’t know. We’re at least ten years out from that now. Maybe the Kree had a second civil war or something else, or quite frankly, I don’t know, you were kind of saying that maybe it took a while for the Empire to die. Well, maybe it did. Maybe it just came down to the fact that their sun took, you know, 20 years to fully die and their oxygen took 20 years to fully start to deplete and that can all be factored in there. I also think you can just look at it from the idea of Dar-Benn clearly continuing Ronan’s ideals and so there is another factor. She’s sitting there on top. I mean, the Kree people are looking to her and so I think seeing that there’s clearly been a transition somewhere from what we saw before and what we see now. Where was the good side of the Kree? Nonexistent in this film. So we’ve clearly seen some sort of transition of power. I’m just wondering if that happened off-screen since we don’t really spend a lot of time with the Kree themselves.

Taylor: Yeah and that’s a good point and it kind of made me think of two things. The first being, you were saying and we kind of both touched on the idea that it could just be a slow burn death or a slow death of the Kree empire. I think the other way to look at that is maybe it was just a really long civil war and it just so happened that that part of the Kree empire, what we’re calling the good part, you know, the non-Accuser part, they were actually reaching out because they were still fighting the civil war. We don’t actually know the terms that they were looking for with the Nova. Maybe they were powerful enough to say, hey, we’re fighting this war against our more extremist fellow Kree, help us help you because they’re coming for you next. You know, we saw him go after the Nova. I don’t remember exactly what was said between that Kree dignitary and the leader of the Nova and what those terms that they were kind of talking about, if anything, they probably gave us very top line so there’s probably not a lot to pull from that. But I almost wonder if that’s something. And the other thing that I want to touch on is what you were saying about the transition of power. If it didn’t happen slowly, there’s something big that does happen between Guardians and this film, commonly known as the snap and the blip.

Katie: Very true and I forgot about that. I’m not going to lie. 

Taylor: Those five years we saw chaos on Earth, I’m sure that was chaotic on every planet in the universe. Whether that’s the moment that the Accusers and the followers of Dar-Benn decided to make their move, entirely possible. We don’t know who was dusted. We don’t know if Dar-Benn was dusted. We don’t know any of that or how that changed the entirety of the politics between the two so I think those are two ways to look at it. Maybe it was just a slow death or a slow burn or a slow, you know, civil war, and also maybe there was an entire shift in dynamics and power during the civil war. It’s also possible that whatever kind of triggered the sun’s death based on the death of the Supreme Intelligence, was worsened by the snap and the blip. We saw it have unprecedented effects, obviously, on Earth and things like that. Some of them for the positive, obviously with the environmental factors but then, you know, you don’t know how that’s going to change other planets and their fragile ecosystems. If certain people who are in charge of keeping certain systems and ecosystems running are dusted and they don’t have a successor that could help increase exponentially the negative effects of something like, I don’t know, let me take out your entire form of government. So there are many ways that that could work out.

Katie: I think just bringing up the snap and the blip alone, it opens a whole other avenue. So I think I mean, really, I think that’s your scapegoat option. Is that really anything that could have happened during those five years when that happened and that could have been the final nail in the coffin for the Kree Empire. I also as you were talking, I was just thinking about, you know, when have we ever seen a government of any kind, whether it’s in a show, whether it’s in real life, whatever, handle a situation like what happened with the Nova in a correct way, I guess should be the way to say that. So I also almost wonder if the Kree were punished for what Ronan tried to do, even if he didn’t necessarily represent all of the Kree, and even if you had other people from the Kree, you know, probably the real generals that ran this country or helped run the country or whatever, even if you had them trying to argue against it, who is to say the Nova didn’t turn around and go right after the Kree because of what one or I can’t just say one because he did have an army with him but one group of the Kree tried to do. I want to just throw that into the ring as well, because that’s just as important, especially when the Kree were trying really hard to have some sort of relations with Nova. I mean, is this not what was going down with the Skrulls then too? It’s the same thing and unfortunately, I think you can have good Kree, but their reputation sometimes precedes them, and then on top of that you have people like Ronan and Dar-Benn. So I just think the Kree are getting really screwed over by some of their own people in the universe.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely. I love the thought of I don’t love the thought, but I love the theory.

Katie: I was going to say, that’s a weird way to put that. 

Taylor: Yeah, no, I love the thought, the theory, the thought around the idea that you know, because of one rogue general and his army either the Kree were punished militarily via some sort of retaliatory attack or if they’re, if the good Kree, as we’re calling them, we’re in such a fragile place and the Nova walked out of discussions for aid or something like that, then they are done and that’s how they lose the civil war and someone like a Dar-Benn because Ronan is now dead, can step into the void and become the leader.

Katie: Well, and Dar-Benn, bringing this all the way back to what we’ve learned in The Marvels, she obviously blames Carol, and I don’t disagree with why she blames Carol but I think it could be a lot more nuanced than the film might have painted. And that kind of goes back to, I think, you know, one of the discussions we had and I don’t even know if it was on our podcast or on one of the ones we guested on at this point. But I know that we were kind of throwing out the idea that there could have been more backstory for Dar-Benn, and I think that might have been part of it. On the surface level, you could argue, okay, well, Captain Marvel, when she destroyed the AI, the Supreme Intelligence, everything went to crap and that is what Dar-Benn is saying, that’s why she blames her. It might not have been an instant thing, as you said, way back at the beginning of this discussion, it could have just been the beginning of the downfall. So maybe it wasn’t the Supreme Intelligence fully falling apart that caused, you know, all the environmental factors, the full civil war, everything. It was just the fact that that was the start of everything, that got the ball rolling, and eventually, momentum just took it and kept it going.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely. I think there are so many ramifications for I think what Carol now views as a very reactionary action. I think at the time she definitely thought she was doing the right thing and now she looks at and she’s like, no, I was just heated. I was POed because they took my memories and I thought that I was doing the right thing, but justifying it via revenge, which is of course what Dar-Benn does, and kind of mirror each other in that respect as well, which I think is a really interesting kind of dyad there. But now that we’ve focused on the Kree and specifically kind of their timeline and thrown out some theories about the evolution of their political stance, let’s talk about their relationship with the Skrulls because we’ve got Dar-Benn in charge now. It sounds kind of like based on my understanding from The Marvels, she’s the one who was leading the negotiations even back in the Secret Invasion days when Nick is talking about, okay, they want to talk they want to come to the table. I’m under the impression that that was Dar-Benn the whole time. Obviously, we know she didn’t enter those negotiations in good faith, but I think it’s important that we talk about the ramifications of the breakdown now, Captain Marvel’s role in them, and also what’s going to happen to the Skrulls. Don’t forget, there’s a second half, there’s a second group of people who are affected by the breakdown of this negotiation. So to start off the Skrulls, where do they go from here? I think there’s a couple of things to talk about. One is the colony like you mentioned before, that is the colony that was out in space it’s not the colony currently on Earth.

Katie: I was really proud of that one. I’m not going to lie.

Taylor: That is a really good one. Honestly, I’m proud of you for that, sisterly pride.

Katie: Yeah, that was good.

Taylor: Yeah. So we know that is not the group led by Talos on Earth, completely different, and that King Valkyrie has now taken them somewhere to be safe. Where do we think that is?

Katie: Okay, so, I don’t know but again, the whole point of this show is not to know and to throw out the theories. Honestly, I have a weird gut feeling it is back to Earth or I shouldn’t say back to Earth because I don’t think they’ve ever been there. I do have a weird feeling about it being Earth just because I mean, King Valkyrie has to be aware of this well, it’s so hard because I don’t really know what King Valkyrie sees in New Asgard, but I would have to think she’s aware of the Skrulls on Earth. Obviously, we know Earth is kind of in a weird spot right now because President Ritson was like, ha ha ha we want everybody who doesn’t actually like pretty much everyone who’s not human to not be here anymore, y’all are going to die or leave, like make your choice. But I think there’s a reunion coming. That’s what I think they’re leading towards is we have two different colonies of Skrulls. You have G’iah out here, who’s a mega-superpowered Skrull. 

Taylor: I forgot about her.

Katie:  I know, right? Sometimes I choose to forget. They just messed that ending up. But, you know, you have this happening on earth. I just feel like if I was Marvel, I guess narratively I’m saying I could see them wanting to unite the Skrulls fully instead of keeping them as two separate groups. Do I think that it makes the most sense to take them back to Earth when Earth is kind of against them right now? No, but they’re also Skrulls and can blend in with people so I think that leads to their advantage. But again, I think they want to unite them so they don’t have to tell two different stories. I think it worked for this movie. I think it’s been working that we’ve seen different parts of the Skrulls over time but at the end of the day, G’iah is probably stepping into that role, but Talos is gone, and they lost their general. These girls just took a mega-hit. There’s not a lot of them. So I just think it makes the most sense to unite them with the rest of their people, whether that means they stay on earth, that’s a different story.

Taylor: I’m aligned with half of what you said. I do agree that you need to unite the Skrulls into one group. I don’t agree that it’s going to be on earth. I don’t think that’s where King Valkyrie took them, simply because she is clearly aware of what is going on. I mean, we talked about this in our President Ritson episode. Technically, her people are falling under that umbrella of people that don’t belong based on Ritson’s, very specific verbiage that he uses. Anybody who’s alien, the Asgardians are not from this planet. They may look like us and we may have a soft spot for Thor, but they are not human. Is she going to be willing to bring another set of aliens to New Asgard to put a further microscope on her own people who are riding on thin ice and have been, refugees in the galaxy? I understand why she went to help them. The Skrulls have been refugees far longer than the Asgardians have, but they now have that empathy. They now have that experience thanks to what happened in Ragnarok so I’m totally aligned with them. I get why she wanted to help them refugees helps refugees but would she bring them to Earth in a way that could then potentially de-home her own people again? I don’t think so. I think the solution is to find somewhere else that is more neutral, somewhere that is more open to receiving refugees. I don’t know what that is. I can’t think of a planet that’s like that yet. I think we heard that Nova’s kind of a mess right now based on I think Thanos went there and did his manual having before he did the universe having. So they’re not coming back if I remember correctly, Nova was one of his targets before getting all of the Infinity Stones.

Katie: Well, they had the Power stone so.

Taylor: Well, yeah, I mean, even before, I mean after sorry after Guardians I think they were, they were a place that he took his children to and they went and they manually did it before he had all the stones. So I don’t think Nova is the place, I don’t really remember off the top of my head a bunch of other planets that we’ve been to because we don’t spend a ton of time with them. But I do think it has to be a neutral, more open planet that is willing to kind of help all of the Skrulls. I do think you need some sort of leader. I could see it being the leader of the kind of space I’m going to call them, the space Skrulls, the Skrulls that were in The Marvels, him being kind of a more political leader, whereas G’iah is more of the kind of enforcer not against her own people, but as a protector of her people. I don’t think she’s quite ready to lead from a political standpoint. I also don’t think that they’re going to want to have a civil war right now and I think both she and this general would recognize, that they need to put on a united front and kind of combine forces. So I half agree with what you’re saying, but I just can’t get behind them going to Earth. The one other thing I want to say really quick that I just thought of when you were talking about the two factions of the Skrulls is it’s interesting to me that Nick Fury, who’s obviously very close with the Earthbound Skrulls, is married to one, he was best friends with another. He was a part of these you know, making these talks happen with the Kree, but yet it was the other faction of the Skrulls that the Krees were talking to. So would that even extend to the Earth-bound Skrulls considering at that time they were not one people? I’m not really sure and that’s something that I didn’t really think about until right now, that technically that was almost a different government speaking on behalf of Skrulls, not those that were in leadership for the Skrulls that have taken a home on earth.

Katie: Okay, so I’m going to answer that in a second but I just want to say to what you were saying about them not necessarily going to Earth. I don’t necessarily think they’re going to stay, but I wouldn’t be shocked if they’re reunited there at least. That’s just my thought process because you have the majority of the Skrulls on Earth, I think it makes the most sense, especially because to your point, I mean, granted, I know there are the nine realms and I know there are plenty of planets and everything else, but on such short notice, where are you taking them? That’s just, my thought process. And again, there’s probably like 30 of them at this point. They couldn’t get half of them on the ships like it wasn’t going well and we already knew this was the smaller faction of the Skrulls. So I just think for maybe the time being, it might just be easier to take them to Earth, have them be in New Asgard. I mean, that doesn’t mean they need to be there for six months. They could be there for a week, but at least get them out of the immediate harm’s way, because I can tell you, Ritson isn’t going to do crap. All he did was create chaos and fear, that’s it. 

Taylor: And he’s going to be dead soon anyway.

Katie: Well, that too. But I mean, like all he did was create genuine fear and I mean, anybody who’s been killed, as we’ve seen already, the blood on his hands is pretty much what I’m trying to say because he did that. He created this fear-mongering. Either way to what you’re saying about the talks, yes. When I threw the theory out initially about it being the other Skrulls, the reason that made the most sense was that it didn’t seem like Talos was a part of any bit of conversation about possibly going to talk to the Kree. Obviously, Talos was not inherently in charge at the time, but Gravik didn’t exactly seem like that was high on his list. Seemed like he was way more determined to take over Earth and screw over the humans. This being said, it is a little weird because one, why was Nick Fury not there? That was kind of something I noticed from the jump was I was like, okay, Nick deliberately goes back up into space because he’s saying, hey, these talks are happening, we need to go. Also, I want to raise the question, Nick, have you been in contact with the other colony this whole time? Because how else do you know?

Taylor: Also, where is your wife?

Katie: Yeah, that was a question I had. I just wanted to, like, leave that on the back burner because I was like, honestly, I’m good without her right now, but I don’t know, that is the other thing. Granted, Nick shares only the information with the people who need to know it, and sometimes we don’t need to know it as the audience. But definitely, it was something that kept coming to mind was I was like, okay, so in order to know about these talks, you had to know the other colony. You had to be in some sort of contact with them and then you raised the question of would it extend to those on Earth. I would think so, mainly because the ones on Earth weren’t doing anything to the Kree. They were, for lack of better words, they were our problem, right? And they still are. They’re Earth’s problem as far as the Kree are concerned, Earth can deal with them as long as they’re not doing something super crazy the Kree do not care, it seems like because we have not bothered with Earth. There are too many heroes. There are too many people out there who are willing to stop the Kree if they were to try and evade so I just think they’re not bothered with them. However, having a whole colony on a completely different planet, I think to them is a threat because also too, that’s how you start to gather. That’s how because the Skrulls are essentially second-class citizens on Earth. They weren’t even or I mean, Earth was barely aware they were there up until Secret Invasion just happened, that to us just happened over the summer. So again, I’m not sure they’re worried about Skrulls when Earth has barely been worried about Skrulls, I’d be a lot more worried about the colony. I think either way, the talks would have extended to all of the Skrulls. It’s still the leftovers of who made it out of the Kree’s initial attacks so I think regardless I would stand. It is interesting because Nick’s part is definitely, I think the biggest gray area out of all of this.

Taylor: Yeah, I agree and it wasn’t something that I really thought about in our initial reaction until we started really focusing on this aspect. And this is why I’m so glad we get to do these because you get to pick apart the things that you weren’t necessarily focused on when you had to look at it from a full 90-minute or hour and 45-minute movie because there’s so much. That’s why I’m like, great, we needed to focus on this because I never would have thought like, hey, Nick is talking to these people, hey, this is technically two different leaders, two different factions. 

Katie: Well, it’s like what have you been doing on SABER? Have you been talking to those Skrulls and worrying about those Skrulls more than you’ve been worrying about the ones on Earth? Because let’s not forget how Secret Invasion started. Talos and him were not in a good place because Talos wasn’t in a good place because Gravik was out here doing what Gravik was doing. Granted, was a lot of that Fury’s fault from the get-go? Yes, of course we’ve seen that but regardless, it’s like, were you out here talking and helping these other Skrulls who had this whole other colony, like what was happening here, and what side of the game were you playing again, Nick Fury?

Taylor: The eternal question, whose side are you really on?

Katie: Right, exactly and it is also interesting because why is Nick Fury so prominently in this when it’s beyond him? Then you have Captain Marvel, who doesn’t seem to be in it at all, who’s a lot more involved.

Taylor: And that’s the perfect segway because I do want to talk about that tension that you see between her and the leader of the Skrulls when she goes in to save them because he basically blames her for it. So I think there’s a lot of interesting nuance to her being even involved in trying to, quote-unquote, save them because that’s what she was trying to do but realistically, she was the reason they were in danger in the first place. Just their simple, you know, association with her beyond being Skrulls, because obviously, we know the Kree hate the Skrulls and they’ll do anything to hurt them that they can but then add on the layer that Dar-Benn absolutely hates Captain Marvel and was specifically going after people that Captain Marvel loved or had associations with. Now she has added a second layer of danger to an already dangerous situation for very vulnerable people. And so I think her being involved and then showing up there and trying to save them just made it worse. I think that’s super interesting because, you know, you have her whole thing is she wants to save the universe and she had that conversation with Monica about someone always needing me. Then you have Monica saying, well, we needed you, too, and her understanding that she doesn’t always need to come in as she hates this name, but come in as the Annihilator. She sometimes you need to come in as Carol Danvers or know when to stand down. Know when it’s not her responsibility or know when she’s not the best woman for the job to fix something and I think that was one area where that is true.

Katie: Well, her connection to them, I think, is a little weird, because if we go back to her roots, what we know, Talos’ is group is the ones she brings to Earth or she brings the rest of them to Earth because obviously we already knew Skrulls had arrived on Earth and that’s the group we see her interacting within the nineties. I know even during Secret Invasion, I think we were talking about that hopefully one day we’d like to see her interact with G’iah and what that would look like because she knew G’iah as a young kid.

Taylor: And G’iah has her powers.

Katie: Well, yeah, again, I’m ghosting over that because I just can’t get the picture out of my head of her with that weird CGI Drax arm like, that is just so ingrained in my head. It was not good, but I’m thinking where does the Skrull colony from space fit into this exactly? And where did that break happen? And now some of this might be because I haven’t watched Secret Invasion since Secret Invasion came out and Talos does talk about them, but I’m trying to understand why did this colony go off on its own and not stick with the group? How did this happen? And then how did Captain Marvel become affiliated with this other colony when we have never seen her interact with them, never mentioned them really before. Unless she’s been visiting them and helping them over time and that, again, is something that happens offscreen that we just are never going to see fully play out.

Taylor: Yeah. So to answer the first part of your question, kind of why did they split? I think I’m going to go out on a limb, and just say a theory here I think makes the most sense to me. When their home was destroyed, different people are going to have different opinions about how they should move forward. I think it’s entirely possible that there was a chasm, a schism that wasn’t necessarily violent. It didn’t really seem to me that Talos and this guy, who I’m so sorry I cannot remember his name, but the leader of, you know, the we’ll call them the galactic space Skrulls there didn’t seem to really be animosity between them, just kind of a differing of opinion of how they should kind of handle the situation and what was best for the Skrull people. In my head in my headcanon, they basically said you can either go with Talos or you can go with this guy, make a choice and that’s going to be how we find our home for the foreseeable future, you know because we don’t have one anymore. So that’s kind of my theory for how that went down to answer the first part of your question. For the second part, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were saying, you know, it’s entirely possible that Carol, in her later years in the 30 years that we didn’t see her between her film, I guess it was closer to 20/25. Those years that we didn’t see her between her film and when she comes back to Earth for Endgame, End of Infinity War beginning of Endgame that she found them because she has an affinity now for the Skrulls and those people she wanted to help them and that through the years she has been supporting them. I mean think about it this way. She’s married and we didn’t know that. Like there’s an entire set of 30 years worth of stories of adventures that Carol has gone on that we have not been a part of and I think this is just one of them, and that we’re kind of expected to say, all right, cool, we get it. You met up with them somewhere in the 25 or 30 years that it’s been and now you have a relationship with them and you’ve just let them down. That’s kind of, I think, what we’re meant to get out of that interaction with that leader is that kind of dynamic.

Katie: Well, and I think, too, and this is from obviously an objective point of view as somebody who’s watching these as films, as TV shows, and isn’t obviously living through this on their day-to-day. It seems like Talos’ group always relied more on Captain Marvel. I just get the impression that she was their person. I mean, even up until now with Gravik and everything going on, obviously, that was a dark time for Talos’ group and continues to be, you know, something, we don’t know how that’s going to play out. I just think there was a lot of reliance on her and on her helping them versus I wonder if this other group was like, cool, you helped us for a little like, we don’t need you anymore. We’re not and I don’t want to say, we’re not like the other group because they might not even be talking to the other group for all we know or barely be talking to them. But kind of the idea of like, we’re not like them, we don’t need you anymore. I mean, they literally had an entire society set up living their lives on whatever planet they were on and were perfectly happy. So I do think, what did they need her for? And the second that she did show up, granted was it her fault what was going down? No, well, partially, but not directly. Not directly in the sense of her showing up there was not be like what caused Dar-Benn to do it. Dar-Benn was angry and was going to do it no matter what, because she was going to get back at Captain Marvel, no matter how she was involved, she was going to get back at Captain Marvel so in the long run, yes, but not in that moment. She was trying to help them in that moment. I just think they didn’t want her. They didn’t need her anymore and her showing up just seemed like it was making things worse. Even though at that moment, her showing up wasn’t, of course.

Taylor: Yeah, no, I agree with that assessment. I think it’s also probably and I’ll take it back to that conversation she had with Monica again, kind of that idea of she always thinks she’s needed out in space and that perception that I’m Captain Marvel, I have to protect everybody. And I think it almost didn’t occur to her maybe that there’s a set of people that just don’t need and do not want her protection.

Katie: Well, exactly and I mean, granted, did Dar-Benn and her talks go the way, well, honestly, they went the way I think we all thought they were going to go, which was not in the positive direction. I would have been shocked if anybody out there genuinely thought this was going to work out, especially in this film, because I don’t think I anticipated it to even be a factor in this film until we started seeing Skrulls in the trailer and was like, huh weird because I didn’t think we were going to focus on that during this. I didn’t expect for a second that Dar-Benn’s talks would be successful. Obviously, Dar-Benn went into this fully, not trying to be successful, but I do give this other colony so much credit for the fact that they even tried. And they tried with an Accuser of all people. Granted, probably the one in charge of the Kree empire at that point but still, it’s not like they were dealing with the nice side of the Kree they were dealing with an Accuser who already I mean, look, at Ronan who was ready to wipe an entire planet off its existence. So, I mean, I don’t to me, it didn’t seem like they felt like they needed her at all. They were doing things by the book. Politically, they were doing things the right way, even if Dar-Benn was not going to give them what they wanted.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think that’s the perfect segue way into the last topic that we want to talk about for this episode, which is where do these groups of people go from here? We know they’re not going to be in an alliance. We talked a little bit about the Skrulls, the Kree, I mean, they’ve got their planet back now, but I want to just point something out. I want to put out a theory because I’ve been thinking about it and we’ve been talking a lot about the Young Avengers lately for obvious reasons. Hulkling is a hybrid person. He is half Kree, half Skrull, and if I remember correctly at the time that that is kind of found out that that’s revealed, that’s scandalous. The idea that a Kree and a Skrull could actually get along well enough to conceive a child. And so it almost makes more sense to me now that they are back at each other’s throats because you’re setting up that kind of dynamic between the two again of, oh my God, one of our own was with one of them, you know? And so now I’m like, can we have Hulkling in the next few years? Can he be revealed because now there’s that dynamic again of disbelief that two people, one Kree, one Skrull, could actually get along well enough to conceive a child who is now ideally 15 to 18 so that he can join the rest of the Young Avengers that we now know are forming. Just want to put that out there.

Katie: The first thing I want to address is I don’t want to say that they’re not going to be able to come to terms with each other, primarily because Dar-Benn is dead. We have seen another Accuser fall and now is that to say, well, we’re not going to see another Accuser rise? Not at all, that’s very possible but we’ve seen that Dar-Benn is no longer clearly in charge. She is dead and we were sure of that one like that one we saw the body, that one is gone.

Taylor: Checkmark, saw the body, moving on.

Katie: Yeah, again, does that mean that that’s going to necessarily make the Kree amazing again? No, but Dar-Benn wasn’t the one who saved them at the end of the day, Captain Marvel was. So could we be seeing another civil war I think is more of a question. Could we be seeing, you know, the Kree Empire go through another phase of metamorphosis and I kind of hate calling them an empire right now because they’re clearly not but could we see them go through something else to change into possibly getting closer to that Kree Empire again. That big, you know, everybody knew who they were. The name, it just held power. Could we be seeing them getting to I mean, this was the low of low. Are they ready to rise back to the top? This all being said, I don’t want to write off that they could have somebody rise who’s more willing to give the Skrulls a chance and more willing to have real peace talks with them than Dar-Benn was.

Taylor: And I think that’s entirely possible. I’m really pushing for Hulkling because that’s what I want but I do think that your theory definitely has a lot of merit. I think it’s definitely plausible. I think that one thing that it makes me think about, too, is we are going to see more space-focused things in the future. We’re taking a little break from space for the time being, but Fantastic Four, they’re a little bit space-focused. I mean, they’re obviously Earth-based heroes, but they spend a lot of time in space. We’re going to get a Nova show, so we’re going to revisit that entire society. Could we see them trying to rekindle something with the Kree and get a little bit more intergalactic space politics in there? Entirely possible. I think the idea of a rising, burgeoning, reimagining of the Kree Empire is actually super interesting. And I want to talk more about or I want to have the opportunity to talk more about space empires and things like that in intergalactic politics because I think that it’s an interesting storyline, I think it’s an interesting plot and I want, long story short, I would love to see that because I want to see them interact with other societies.

Katie: Yeah, and I think, you know, Guardians gives a taste of it, and Guardians themselves don’t exactly play by the galactic rules. So I think that would be interesting. I just want to circle back to your Hulkling stuff because I didn’t have a chance to address that. There are two routes here that I’m going to throw out and I guess there are three. The first, just being Hulking doesn’t happen at all. Simple, put it to the point. I know, I know, but simple and put it to the point. It doesn’t happen. Okay, whatever. The second point is, that Hulkling is already alive, already happened and maybe that is with where the Kree Empire stands now and where the Skrulls stand. Maybe that is what brings them together because if we think timeline-wise, well, we can’t have the kid be born now if we want him to be or her if they decide to change their gender or whatever, we can’t have that kid be three. That does it work for us. That’s not going to check out for the Young Avengers. We aren’t going that young, so that kid’s got to be born already if they want to do it. That being said, the other option is Hulkling isn’t in this universe and I don’t want to get too far into that because we can go down quite a few different roads with that. It’s possible Hulkling gets brought in when Battleworld happens and maybe he’s still or they are still able to be what brings the Skull and the Kree together because they see that this hybrid has happened. Even if it didn’t happen in their universe, they see that there is a universe where the Skrull and the Kree clearly got along because here’s this kid who’s both of them. So those are my thoughts on Hulkling, just to address those since you brought him up.

Taylor: I can get behind two and three. I mean, one is plausible, it just annoys me. But I can get behind two and three. I think that’s kind of where I was getting at, where I was like, hopefully, he’s 15 because or 15 to 18 because obviously him being born now is like not helpful because he wouldn’t even fit our like mini Avengers, who are like young T’Challa Phylla-Vell, Love of. He would need to be either 9 to 12 or 14 to 23. He needs to be in either one of those ranges for him to fit into our current theory buckets so agreed on the ages and I agree. I mean, you know, with the Multiverse we’ve said it a million times, all things are on, on the table. It’s entirely possible we’re going to get these characters not necessarily born in our universe but brought in later. Obviously, with Battleworld, we have the opportunity to really explore the Multiverse in a way that we haven’t deeply yet. Especially I’m looking at you and MoM with your quick travel through many different universes but I mean, I don’t know about you, Kate, I think that’s all I wanted to talk about as it relates to intergalactic politics and kind of all that we know now. You are giving me the thumbs up, so we’re going to call it a wrap on this episode but this has been really, really fun, and again, this is why we love to do these, because this is a whole deep discussion that we never would have gotten to do. Breaking things down, diving deep, finding flaws, finding continuity, errors, questions, and things like that. And that’s the stuff that we love to do, tossing out new theories. So thank you for coming along on this ride with us. If you are looking forward to more episodes like this where we get to dive deep into specific topics you can follow them on your podcast platform of choice. Make sure you’re also checking out our website where we have the calendar and the home page of the site where you can choose to support the episode if you would be so kind.

Katie: You can follow us on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Instagram and Threads at SistersAssembled to keep up with the show. For next week, we are already starting the well, I don’t know if I should say it that way. We’re starting the final show of the 2023 or the final piece of content for the 2023 year, and I don’t even know if we all thought it was going to come out in 2023 and then they announced it like a month ago and we were like, okay, so What If? predictions are coming out next week if you guys can believe it or not. So get ready. Make sure you guys are sticking around for that episode because that’s going to be a good one. We’re pretty excited. What If? Season One was awesome so we’re excited for Season Two and as always, keep up with all the Marvel content and ours as well because Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.