Transcript

Taylor: Hello listeners, and welcome to Sisters Assembled. We have an exciting episode for you today because we are talking about all things Madame Web. If you are not paying attention, it is coming out in just a few days, so we are getting ready to go to the theaters and watch the first Sony slash Marvel film of the year. First of three, first of three, maybe four, right?

Katie: Four, right? I thought Venom, Kraven. Deadpool, Madame Web.

Taylor: Sony I meant sorry Sonyverse, by Sony slash Marvel I meant Sonyverse.

Katie: Oh sorry, yes, I think this is one of three.

Taylor: Well I’m thinking like what if by some miracle, we all get to enjoy Beyond the Spider-Verse, that’s where I came with four because, you know, the year is long, so maybe. Anyway, long story short, first of maybe 3 or 4 Sonyverse films of the year. 

Katie: First of at least three, let’s say that.

Taylor: Yeah, we’ve got a lot of Sonyverse coming at you and you know, this is where Spider-Man gets a little weird. There are some areas that the Spider-Man comics have explored that are a little bit beyond your tradition Peter Parker gets bitten by a radioactive spider, and then he fights Doc Ock, and then he fights the Green Goblin. The more classic storylines that we all know from childhood, from Tobey, from Andrew. Those things are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Spider-Man. There are entire ancient organizations and these things called totems, and we’re not going to get into it all today, but we’re going to scratch the surface because Madame Web lives within this more mystical, larger, more interconnected Spider-people realm that we’ve been partially introduced to in the Spider-Verse films with Miles Morales. So it’s not a completely new concept, but it’s definitely a little deeper than your casual Spider-Man fan has gone before. We’re going to guide you in there, and then we’re going to talk about the film, and it’s going to be great. So, Katie, why don’t you kick us off with a little bit of info about Madame Web?

Katie: Well, I was actually going to say really quick that as you were kind of setting that up, I’m pretty sure we said this on another episode or something, this is a deep cut, guys. You’re not going to open a typical Spider-Man comic and find Madame Web just chilling on the pages. It doesn’t work like that, so this is definitely a much deeper cut. I think that goes very hand in hand with what Taylor was kind of setting up there. I also want to just say, because there’s not really a good place, I think, to mention this, they actually wanted to make this Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man’s universe and then somebody at Sony realized they were setting the movie in like the 80s or 90s and was like, oh, wait, that doesn’t work but I do just want to put that out there for reference, because obviously that does not canonize that fact. That does not make that a for sure thing to go forward with but I do just want you thinking about that, especially as you watch this movie. 

Taylor: Yeah, I actually think that the movie is set in the early 2000s. That seems to be kind of the consensus that I saw in a couple of articles, weirdly, specifically 2003, I think US was like, yeah, it’s set in 2003 or another outlet said that, and I was like, that’s so weirdly specific. But I do want to go off of that by saying it does make a little bit more sense to be that timing, considering the second part of that kind of knowledge that you dropped about it originally being conceived to be Andrew’s universe is that they have kind of adapted it to now be Toms, which doesn’t really totally make sense to me because it’s supposed to be the MCU. But at the same time, that time shift does make more sense considering we know that Marisa Tomei’s Aunt May, appears much younger than Sally Fields’ did, who played obviously aunt May in Andrew’s version. So Adam Scott, who’s supposedly playing Uncle Ben, he seems about the right age in the 2000s to then grow older to be around Marisa Tomei’s age in the MCU when we first meet Peter.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of interesting. It’ll be strange no matter where it goes, I think. I think if they would have at least said it was Andrew’s, I could have been like, well, that’s on an island of its own. We can deal with whatever happens on its own accord, like whatever but it being Tom’s definitely is going to be interesting. I do just want to say, and again, you guys could take everything and every bit of this with a grain of salt, but Google does have him listed as Ben Parker in this movie. Who knows? I mean, it comes out in like a few days and we aren’t really sure. We also apparently have Emma Roberts in this movie, so I don’t know.

Katie: Yeah, it’s super weird. It’s also kind of strange to me that we’re getting Ben and Mary, and it wasn’t until I looked it up that I was like, because you don’t think about it. You’re just like, oh, Ben and Mary Parker. But then I was like, wait a minute, you’ve got the mother and the uncle, and they’re not siblings. It’s Richard and Ben are the siblings. Obviously, that’s why they’re the Parkers, they take Richard’s name. And so I was like, it’s not even brother sister, I could almost understand if you were like Ben and Mary, are brother and sister and I get their brother and sister in law, but that’s not the same. So why are we just getting Ben and his mother? It does make a little more sense now why it’s not Andrew’s because Andrew spent so much time focusing on his father, Richard, and what his dad was doing in his research and trying to understand the last weeks and months of his father’s life before they died. So it kind of makes sense that there wouldn’t be a Richard because we’ve seen so much, or it wouldn’t be Andrews universe because we’ve seen so much of Richard. But it’s definitely a weird omission to just like, not have May and not have Richard.

Katie: Yeah, I think I’m just in general struggling already with this film just because it’s essentially a prequel and one nobody asked for. But also, I don’t like prequels to an ever expanding universe because and we will get into the characters in a second but on a high level, I think my biggest thing is you are theoretically about to bring in three different Spider-women in the 2000s.

Taylor: In the same universe.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: Which they do exist in the same universe. I think, I don’t know, I was trying to read up on all of them, but, yeah.

Katie: But still, how does that work? To us, he’s supposed to be the first of his kind in our universe, that’s kind of the idea. So I’m kind of like, okay, are we like, what is going to happen here? And I guess that gets to the plot so I guess we could table that discussion. But it is going to be an interesting I mean, they won’t be the only Spider-people either. We have a whole Spider-Man in this movie as well. I don’t even know if I could be calling him Spider-Man, but we have a Spider-esque person in this film prior to them, prior to the three Spider-women. So I guess I hate it being Tom’s universe because it makes very little sense to me.

Taylor: Yeah, you know, a lot of the Sonyverse makes very little sense to me. I mean, thinking about the ways that they’ve tried to connect some characters before, bringing in Vulture into Morbius. It just it hasn’t really worked. I don’t know that their vision of the Multiverse and Kevin’s vision align, and I think that’s part of the problem. It’s interesting because obviously Sony has a hand in the Spider-Verse films with Miles and those who have a very clear point of view on the Multiverse, we’ll get into how that connects into this film, don’t worry, but those are very clear. They have set rules, we understand and everything. I think it does complicate things when it gets to the MCU, and we’ve talked about that in the past, you know, when we covered Across the Spider-Verse but at least it has a consistent rule within itself. These films that they’re building that are live action, like the Morbius’, both Venoms. They work as insular films for the most part. You know, Venom One is incredibly enjoyable to watch, but they don’t work as a joint unit because they are characters that don’t belong together unless you’re specifically putting them together, which they don’t. And then they try to tie it to the MCU tenuously in weird end credit scenes that don’t make any sense, and they refuse to pick and put a stake in the ground on what universe or what Spider-Man of the main three live action right now they actually belong to. And even though they’re saying it’s Tom, are we ever going to get any sort of confirmation in this film? I don’t think so. There isn’t a Peter Parker Spider-Man in this film. Otherwise he’s like, maybe a baby or maybe Mary’s pregnant, I’m not sure. But either way, because they won’t put a stake in the ground, they just keep messing around and not being firm and then just changing their mind it feels like every film and it’s just chaotic and that is my complaint for the day.

Katie: Yeah, I agree, and I think with that, let’s just get into some of these characters. We kind of already were talking about Ben Parker, who to your point, I guess isn’t fully confirmed, but is an assumed role. I did mention Emma Roberts is coming in as Mary Parker. We actually don’t really see her in anything that they’ve put out, so that it’s going to be a very interesting character, in my opinion. When you purposely omit somebody from trailers, especially somebody named Emma Roberts, I’m very intrigued immediately about her role and what she truly is going to be doing in this movie. I want to first zero in on Dakota Johnson, who’s playing Madame Web, our main protagonist. I do think it makes sense for this to be set a little in the future or in the past, because in the future, she’s supposed to be older. If you see any of her iterations of the comics, she’s definitely, you know, she’s got gray hair and everything. Not saying that she might not have gray hair, I guess, in like roughly 25 years, I mean, yeah, I guess probably, depending on how early in the 2000 we’re talking. But where does she go from here is where I actually want to start ironically. Not what she’s doing in this film, because I do think Martin was an interesting character that I think they can run away with. Do we keep Dakota Johnson as Madame Web in the future? That’s one of my questions. And where do we see her next? Are actually the questions I want to begin with.

Taylor: Yeah, it’s a good question, and I’m glad you asked it, because I think it gives us the opportunity to talk a little bit about who Madame Web is and what she does in the comics. So Madame Web actually has psychic powers. She can see the future, and she’s also telepathic. So she’s got a lot going on from a cerebral standpoint. She’s a very cerebral character, and she and Spider-Man work together on different occasions. So I could see, to answer your question, where does she go from here? I could see her interacting with whatever Spider-Man this universe is in. Obviously, when we talk about it being Tom’s, those are conjecture. I don’t think that’s been, at any rate, confirmed. So I’m just going to say whichever Spider-Man universe she inhabits in the future, I could see her allying herself with a Spider-Man. I don’t know how deep Sony wants to go into some of these plotlines because like I talked about in the intro, it is very deep. Some of these plotlines, there’s like mystical aspects and super ancient organizations and these beings that have been at odds with each other for years, and there’s so much to go off of that. And there’s a plot line where all of Manhattan gets turned into like, spider monster beings, like there’s some really weird stuff, and I can’t decide if Sony is just going to, like, lean into some of this. There’s another plotline where her granddaughter steals powers from Spider-Women, and then she actually brings Spider-Women together to stop her granddaughter, which is interesting, because that’s kind of what you’re seeing almost in this, the plot of this film. And so I say all that to say, the only thing that I feel like is going to happen and the only point I feel like of creating this film is to introduce her to be an ally to a Spider-Man in the future, but that also opens a whole lot of doors that I don’t necessarily know that your casual comic book movie watcher is ready to go to, and not trying to be condescending. I personally don’t know that I’m ready to go there, and I’m probably a little bit more than your casual watcher.

Katie: So you said a few things and a few of the things you were mentioning kind of put this idea in my head of maybe you said she’s only here for and you kind of said your reasoning, but I wonder if you think about it, if you’re thinking of even about your casual fan, we’re not going that big of a deep cut like this is a deep cut on its own. I can’t see Sony taking that big of a swing because in the nicest of ways, have they really done well when they’ve taken little bunts? Like, we’re not gonna sit here and swing for a home run and by that I mean go so deep and do a whole, you were describing some of the storylines, doing any of those. I don’t see them doing that. I actually see them taking Madame Web and kind of making her a through person. She is in the comics, to your point, she is definitely an ally, but she’s also kind of this, I don’t want to call it like the supreme power because she’s not anything like, Supreme Strange or anything of that. But she is kind of in the Spider-realm, this, like, very notoriously known person. And so I almost wonder if they’re going to take that idea of her and turn her into almost the directionor of all of this. She is going to be the core of what brings all of this together in the long run, because I could see them going that direction with her and her kind of being, I don’t know the best way to describe it, other than to say the middle of the web. And she is out here putting everybody together, finally putting our pieces on the board and she’s, you know, turning it all out. I could see them going that direction, otherwise I’m not really sure the point of this.

Taylor: Yeah. No, you bring up a good point because that was something that some of the articles that I was reading about the film we’re talking about is that because she is a Multiversal being in the sense that she can travel between universes, which let’s add her to the list of characters that we’ve been mentally keeping that can adjust between the Multiverses because she has that power, you’re right. We can go in between universes now and not necessarily have to have Venom exist in the same universes as Morbius, though theoretically they’re supposed to, but we’ve never seen anything on screen that has proven that, have we?

Katie: I don’t think so, not definitive proof. I know a lot of people argue, like, because Venom’s happening on the other side half the time of the US, that there isn’t definitive proof the other way.

Taylor: Yeah, I’m trying to remember because I feel like there was something in one of the maybe Morbius trailers that showed that it was in the same universe.

Katie: The Morbius one was the one that showed a Spider-Man, and I’m pretty sure it was Tobey’s Spider-Man but then they did the Rhinoceros thing in the newspaper, which was Andrew’s. Remember this now?

Taylor: I blocked out Morbius, so no, I don’t.

Katie: You don’t remember that at all?

Taylor: I mean, I do remember that being a thing. Like, I do remember hints that it was Andrew’s and I think to the Oscorp building people were saying, oh, it has to be Andrew’s. It looks like that style of Oscorp, I think, or something like that. But anyway, let’s just say hypothetically, that we have no proof in either direction whether these different movies are connected or, for example, Kraven the Hunter, we have no clue because we haven’t seen it yet. So let’s just say Kraven and Morbius are in totally different universes because Madame Web is able to move between universes, there’s no Kraven the Hunter without Spider-Man, right? We’re going to see a Kraven the Hunter film without Spider-Man, because that’s what Sony does and for some reason, they refused to again put a stake in the ground. But there will be a Spider-Man in his universe, regardless of whether we see him or not. So because of that, I think that Madame Web could be that connector between all of these different films, like you were saying. And I think it’s a really interesting opportunity to tie it all together. We’re going to get later in the episode, we’re going to get a little bit deeper into this kind of web that connects all Spider-people. It’s a concept that we’ve talked about or seen really in the Spider-Verse films, and she’s really a big part of that. So yeah, the idea of her as a connector definitely feels right, but I also think she is going to interact with whichever Spider-Man they finally align is in her universe. She has to. 

Katie: Yeah, I don’t disagree. I think, like I said, if she is not a connector, what’s the point of this movie? I think there’s no I also I’m sitting here and listen, a lot of actors and actresses come on for a movie and they do the movie and they move on, a lot, a ton do it. I mean, that’s why we have literally just standalone movies, right? But this kind of stuff isn’t always just standalone and so you need to be very mindful of who you’re bringing on. For one, there’s quite a few big names attached to this movie, but Dakota Johnson being your leading lady, I mean, for one role, that’s what we’re going to go with? I have to think that they have a door that they are trying to open here. And, I mean, we have spewed again, and again, and again, how sick and tired we are of Sony making these movies and they are just absolute crap, doing anything with them. Because at the end of the day, sure, give me a subpar Venom 3. What does it mean? I don’t know. Give me, Kraven the Hunter that the only reason I’m watching it, other than the podcast, is for Aaron Taylor-Johnson, and beyond that, I would never see that movie. Fine. But what’s the reason? Where are we going with it? And so I’m thinking that this is going to be a long run sort of idea. I do just want to briefly go over her origin, or at least what we’ve seen. I don’t want to try and even tackle the comic book end of it, because I think that gets confusing. What we’ve seen in the trailer looks like it calls back to her mother. That’s the relationship we’re seeing there, is a her mom seem to be doing research on spiders, seems that’s how she dies somewhere in that mix or she’s murdered but it’s all in the same time frame. And that is probably just the connection between her and Ezekiel Sims, because he’s supposedly there when her mom dies. Beyond that, remove the spider, take that out of your mind. She is not a spider person. Her ability is seemingly calm when she has an accident, as she is a paramedic. Looks like she is trying to save somebody, and in the meantime she falls into some water. She is saved, clearly, but in the meantime, that appears to be when she starts to get visions. So let’s break it down. What does that mean? How, maybe that’s a good question. How does this work? What does this all mean?

Taylor: I don’t even know where to begin because there are so many things going through my head now between what I’ve read about Spider-people and all of that, and how they get their powers and how the spiders weren’t necessarily and accident and all of that, and I just can’t go that deep today. I think in terms of how it’s being portrayed in the film, I think it makes sense in that they’re simplifying the story for the casual moviegoer because she is a very complicated character. She is central, like you said, to a lot of Spider-people’s stories, and I don’t know how you would even begin to do that or enter that, enter the audience into that whole arena if you didn’t really simplify who she is. So I don’t know that I can even say, like, what does this mean? I think it’s just they had to change her origin, at least what I remember reading, they had to change her origin to make it more accessible for audiences, to get her to the point where she has her abilities so that she can then move forward with the three Spider-Women. I think that’s really what I’m kind of getting from it. I don’t know that there’s any more for me to say without having seen the film, unfortunately.

Katie: Yeah, I would be inclined to agree on that one. I think from what we’ve seen from the trailer, it seems pretty straightforward. To your point, they’re dumbing it down essentially to work in this format. I think since I mentioned him, let’s go right to Ezekiel next. He’s an interesting character and the one thing I want to bring forth, which is actually not the point of the trailers at all, and probably not the point of his possible villain era, but clearly, if he was supposed to be on a trip in the rainforest with Cassie’s mom, that’s Madame Web, with her mom, and he still looks young. We actually see a few things that like, he’s gray and everything, a few shots, so my guy is doing something here, isn’t he? There’s something going on. There’s some magic at play here.

Katie: Yeah, or some really potent spider venom, for keeping in in tune with where where we are with our Spider-people. He has a really interesting character. He’s kind of both in the comics, a friend and a foe to Spider-Man. He mentors Cindy Moon, who, if you guys don’t know, that’s Silk in the comics, so that’s another Spider-person. And he’s a member of the Spider Society, which is something that we are all familiar with, in an iteration of it. So he’s very involved in Spider-people and their adventures and things like that. But he himself, I don’t know, he’s definitely a gray character so it’s not surprising to me after reading that, that he’s kind of the villain of this film. But I definitely feel like from what I’ve read, I feel like there’s a pretty decent sized departure from who he is in the comics.

Katie: Yeah, I think what I’m intrigued about is, why is he, well, first off, I still don’t understand how he’s de-aging essentially. But on top of that, why he’s coming after the three soon to be Spider-Women. He obviously is trying to, the trailer lays it out pretty nicely, he’s trying to kill them. He’s trying to stop them from becoming Spider-Women and I want to understand the core of that. Like what is the reasoning?

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s tough because they all have their own important storylines within the comics and it’s just a matter of is the film going to adapt one of them? Julia Carpenter, she’s an Avenger, that’s Sydney Sweeney’s character. So her Spider-Woman/arachne, she becomes an Avenger. Anya, who becomes Arana/Spider-Girl, she has ties to Kingpin. She’s a Web Warrior, which is basically like the Spider Society in Across the Spider-Verse. She’s in the Avengers Academy, she has ties to Captain Marvel and Wonder Man, so any one of her, you know, storylines could be interesting. Maddie Franklin, who’s the third one, she got her powers from The Gathering of Five, which involves Madame Web. She’s the niece of J. Jonah Jameson, she’s friends with Cindy Moon, so I don’t know if we’re trying to bring that character in in kind of a side door at some point. They all have their own interesting storylines, and it’s just a matter of which one is Ezekiel trying to stop from happening, or is it a completely new storyline that they’re going to adapt for this film. One that they’re actually going to create from scratch for this film because, I mean, just from doing the reading that I’ve done thus far, they’re clearly taking some serious liberties with these characters, which is fine, like whatever. Marvel does the same thing. But I think it it makes it harder to kind of pinpoint like, what exactly about Julia, Anya and Maddie’s time as Spider-People is a Ezekial trying to stop? I’m not really sure.

Katie: Yeah, it’s weird because, as I said, like he’s trying to stop them before they even become Spider-Women. And it’s intriguing to see, like, there’s a lot of thoughts running through my head and it’s like, do they all make it out of this film or do we see only one? In which case, maybe we get that storyline further down the road. If they all make it out, what does that mean in the future? I know what you’re talking about, whose you know story or whose universe it says, but the only way this is going to make sense, if I’m being quite honest, and I’m going to be so clear when I say this is we have some sort of time jump. That’s the only way that if you leave these characters in, if Julia and Anya and Maddie make it and they beat Ezekiel or whatever happens at the end of this movie, the only way if they want to tie this all together, for them to come into Tom’s to come into even Venom or any of the other Sony movies is to, well, if Venom isn’t in this universe, because if they’re okay, well, if they’re in Tom’s, Venom is not in this universe, so would be the universe jump. Or if they are in Tom’s and like I said, this is essentially a prequel, they have to time jump to be of any relevance. You are not going to get Sydney Sweeney in 25 years. You’re going to bring her in and she’s going to be Sydney Sweeney, the age she is now. That is just a fact. 

Taylor: Yeah and just simply knowing that she is probably, other than Dakota Johnson, the biggest name in this film.

Katie: I mean, she’s literally listed before everybody. She’s the first name on Google.

Taylor: Yeah, I would say that my money’s on, let’s say hypothetically, only one of these Spider-Women come out alive, it’s going to be Julia Carpenter, because again, it’s Sydney Sweeney and you’re not bringing in like Dakota Johnson, you’re not bringing her in for one film. 

Katie: Well, I would also argue and this could be a hot take, but I would also have to argue Julia Carpenter, to me, is what, at least I knew that name. I have to say, I didn’t recognize the other two when I was seeing what Spider-People they played, I didn’t recognize their names or their stories. Julia Carpenter I did.

Taylor: Well, yeah. I mean, I think for the average fan, when you think of Spider-Woman, you think Jessica Drew, who we already have, we’ve already seen in Across the Spider-Verse. And then you think probably Julia Carpenter, because I’m not even a huge beyond Spider-Man Spider-people fan we’ll say and that name even sounded familiar to me. So I definitely would agree that she, Julia, is probably the more well known character. I think as you go down, especially when it gets to like Ezekiel, like these are deeper cut characters that the average person isn’t going to know and that’s why I think for him to really go ahead and be the villain, it makes sense because he’s not going to probably, say he doesn’t win, he’s not going to make it out of this film and that’s fine, because he’s not a character that I think a lot of people are super attached to.

Kaite: Yeah, I agree, and I also agree with your sentiment about if one were to make it, it’s going to be Julia Carpenter. I also just want to briefly and actually we’ve discussed a lot of the plot as we’ve discussed the characters, but I also want to briefly say just putting it out there, I will bet you they will be in their suits for a total of five minutes, if that. I do not think we are getting a lot of them as full blown Spider-people, which is disappointing if they don’t necessarily all make it out of this movie but I think that is your clickbait right there, if anybody needed any.

Taylor: Yeah, I would agree. I think the scenes that we’ve seen in the trailer where they’re fighting a Ezekial are fully dressed in their costumes, well, one I’m like, where do they get these costumes so quickly? Like, where did that come from?

Katie: Well, clearly they got their abilities, so that’s the other thing. 

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, like, I guess that opens the question of is there a time jump within the film itself?

Katie: True, which there very well could be.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, he’s obviously in some form or fashion, either he sees the future like Cassie or he’s lived it and gone back in time.

Katie: I think this film, and I hate to say it, but I’m gonna say it, I think this film is going to mess with our minds way more than we think. I think we’re going to have a huge Multiversal aspect to this, and I think we’re going to have a huge time related aspect to this. I think this just opens the door to really that big conversation, because like I said, I think we handled a lot of the plot already, which is how this all ties together, because I actually think for the first time and I don’t really want to give Sony the credit until I see the film, because I could be so wrong. But I actually think for the first time I see a direction Sony is trying to go.

Taylor: Yeah, I think it’s been tough, I will give them a little bit of benefit of the doubt here, and I will say, I think it’s been tough because they have only been doing these films every few years. For Marvel, it’s a little easier to see kind of what our larger trajectory is because one they tell us and they are sharing with us what the slate looks like for the next couple of years. We know we’re building towards Secret Wars. We’ve known that for a couple of years now and so everything that we watch, we frame, you know, in the way of does this get us closer to Secret wars, or does it not? And if yes, how? With Sony, one, they’re not dropping three films a year, and two, they’re not providing us any sort of foresight into what their plans are so it does seem very haphazard and very weird. Now, that doesn’t explain the weird end credit stuff that they’re doing but we’re just going to put that aside for now. I think for the first time, like you were saying, we’re seeing a film that in and of itself has the potential to be a connector and to move towards things that make sense with not only their live action, but the Spider-Verse films in animation as well. Which I think if they can connect the live action to the Spider-Verse, things are going to start to make a lot more sense because the Spider-Verse films laid a lot of foundation for our general understanding that will help us see how the whole world is connected. When I was reading the articles you pointed that out, I was like, that’s the like, eureka moment, right? That for me, I was like, oh, this now makes so much more sense, tthey’ve been laying these stones for us to follow these breadcrumbs. And now with this film, we can start to pick them up and actually get on the trail in a much more intentional way. 

Katie: Hopefully.

Taylor: Ideally, yeah.

Katie: Because I would like to think this is to your point, the eureka moment almost. And it’s like, okay, I see it, I know where we’re going, I get it. Honestly, I know you said throw aside some of those end credits, but I do agree, let’s throw aside the Morbius one. I don’t want to think about it, but in kind of preparing for this episode, something interesting that I had seen somebody talking about was the Venom end credit where he comes, not the one where he leaves his little symbiote piece in 616 but when he originally comes over and listen, guys, this was like three years ago, so it’s kind of been casted aside. We’ve had No Way Home since then, we’ve had MoM, we’ve had a lot happening, especially in this realm. But what this person was pointing out, which I never thought about, was there had to be something that happened to bring him to 616. I never thought about it because I was too distracted by seeing Tom Holland suddenly on the TV screen but when this person pointed that out, I was like, wait a second, and now we have a prequel coming in that I’m like, maybe, just maybe we get to understand what that moment was because two, we don’t really know where all these films fall. That’s the other thing. As much as we don’t know where Marvel’s timeline is, we have almost zero knowledge of where Sony is.

Taylor: Yeah. That’s true. I mean, I always assumed when I watched that film and that end credit that it was the Snap and the Blip that was causing that just based on timing and things like that but you never really know. I guess they could always come back and show us that that wasn’t it. That was just kind of the impression that I got.

Katie: Yeah. I mean, I think originally that’s something we even talked about. I don’t actually agree with that, looking back at it now, mainly because I think logically I’m like, that really doesn’t make sense that the Snap and the Blip would be doing that, especially because at the time we were nowhere on this Multiversal train. And I don’t really think Sony, of all people, were going to sit there and be like, yup, that’s that, like, no. So I actually am more intrigued now to to figure out what caused that and let’s just take the lid off here. You kind of were talking about the well, you know the name of it more than I do. I always forget it. Go ahead and take it away about the whole web thing.

Taylor: Yeah, so when I was doing my research, I came across this thing and I was like oh my goodness. It’s kind of like in the last episode, Kate, when you were doing the research on Kingpin and Mayor Kingpin, you realized how many things are connected. Well, I kind of had that moment with this thing called the Web of Life and Destiny, super subtle.

Katie: There it is. I knew it was something destiny.

Taylor: It is not at all highly named and very important, but it is kind of this thing that connects all of the Spider-people, right? It is something that they protect, and it gets into kind of what I’ve hinted at before, this idea of like a very intentional Spider society, not in the way that we know it. That’s not how I mean it. Intentional in the sense that there are literally all of these Spider-people from their own universes, kind of like we’ve seen in Across the Spiderverse in the Spider-Verse films but so many of them and they’re all many of them are in service to protecting this Web of Life and Destiny and it comes from these ancient beings and there’s all this stuff about it, and I just can’t even get there. But some interesting tidbits about it without going too deep into some of these crazy storylines, though, I highly recommend you guys at least peruse them because they’re fascinating. It just adds a whole nother layer to Peter Parker Spider-Man that I, as someone who watched the shows as a child, just kind of want to leave it at the surface level, but it’s definitely still interesting stuff, but Web of Life and Destiny. It allows you to travel between the Multiverse or between universes within the Multiverse. The creator, the person who created the Web of Life and Destiny, is the actual originator of Spider-people, so that’s super interesting in and of itself. She’s the one who, like, sent out the spiders to create Spider-people in the universes, that’s what I was talking about, the kind of mystical ancient being. There is, a spider army, which is kind of the precursor to the Web Warriors. Web warriors are kind of like the Spider Society in Across the Spider-Verse. The Web of Life and Destiny is what we did see in Across the Spider-Verse, where they showed that cannon moment where we saw the connection to Tobey and Andrew, that scene that we all freaked out about, that is the Web of Life and Destiny. And probably one of my craziest facts that I’m going to throw at you all here is that the Web of Life and Destiny is where the spider sense comes from, which is fascinating because you all just think it’s like, I mean, you all, but you all, I mean, literally everybody who reads Spider-Man or watches Spider-Man, it just kind of feels like it comes naturally with the powers. It actually comes from the Web of Life and Destiny, which is like, again, going a layer deeper into Spider-Man that I don’t know that I ever wanted to go, but fascinating stuff.

Katie: Yeah, I think, like you said, that’s your ‘aha’ moment, and I think it is. I want to take a second and zero in on I think the biggest thing you said out of all of that, although all are important things to remember, especially going into this movie, but it lets Spider-people move between universes. And I think that is so important when  we just got done talking about Venom moving into 616, and we’re constantly talking about how are all these guys going to work one day because there’s no way we’re just making a bunch of one off movies, because anybody in any position of power, in any type of film industry could tell you that’s not going to work. There needs to be direction. So I think that is so important to run with because guess what? That’s your answer. I also like how you said that, because if you think about it, we now have a tree. We have a lovely Multiversal tree. So if you think about moving between the universe, well, or the Multiverse, isn’t it a lot easier when the Multiverse is in the shape of a tree?

Taylor: I also want to, going off of that, you made me remember something that I read that was utterly mind blowing. Which is that at one point, the Web of Life and Destiny, I don’t know that it’s totally destroyed, but it gets severely damaged, there’s something that goes on, there’s like a battle or something, I don’t know. There are all these people who are opposed to Spider-people. There’s something called like the Sisterhood of the Wasp, and that’s literally where I’m going to leave it before I go down a deep rabbit hole that I was reading and my eyes were crossing, but the web gets severely damaged. And I was reading, I don’t know if it was like the Marvel Wiki or the actual Marvel website itself, but whatever I was reading was saying, with the Web of Life and Destiny damaged, the only way to move around the Multiverse was through mystical means, which think about that sentence. That means that we’ve seen Doctor Strange do it. We’ve seen America do it. We’ve seen Clea do it. We’ve seen Monica do it. Monica is kind of a weird one, but looking at the first three specifically, those are all mystical. 

Katie: Wanda dream walked.

Taylor: Oh, I thought you said Monica.

Katie: Oh no no no no no, I’m wearing my Scarlet Witch sweatshirt. You thought I said Monica?

Taylor: Oh, that’s why I was like, I mean, yes, but like she’s more space. But yes, you’re right Wanda as well. So looking at these very specifically mystical people, that’s one way to do it and whatever I was reading was saying is the Web of Life and Destiny is almost like a parallel road through the Multiverse, beyond the mystical. Then bringing in Monica, we’ve seen that extreme amounts of energy in space can also do that. So I think we’ve actually talked about something like this before, the idea that there are multiple ways to access and travel through the Multiverse. Now, we’ve just added the Web of Life and Destiny to space and to mystical.

Katie: Well, honestly, if we actually want to wrap this into a possible bow, you could argue that the web could have gotten damaged already, and that could be how Venom came to 616, was it got damaged and he accidentally fell through a little hole in the universes as it got damaged and ended up in 616. Then when Strange did his spell, it send him back, because Strange made sure all those cracks were closed, right? 

Taylor: Oh my God, can I just say something that would make me so happy? Okay, you know how in Across the Spider-Verse Miguel’s whole thing is, Miles, your dad has to die like it’s a canon event, your whole universe is going to collapse all of that. Well, what if the whole universe doesn’t just collapse? That the idea of the canon event we saw what happens, it kind of goes into that nothingness. What if that also damages the web? And so what we’re seeing in Across the Spider-Verse is, as Miles is unwittingly damaging the web, it’s affecting Venom and then through mystical means, he’s sent back but no matter what, the web is still damaged. And what I thought was interesting is when I was reading a little bit more about the characters and some of their storylines, they wear these bands that allow them to travel through the Multiverse in the comics and those bands, what they figure out is it’s actually damaging the web. So as they’re moving across the Multiverse through the web, they’re actually damaging it in the process. I think that’s interesting because what the article I was reading was pointing out was we have seen them use things like this in Across the Spider-Verse. So not only are they potentially damaging it as they’re moving across the different universes, but then as the universes are collapsing because cannon events are not happening, now we’re seeing that avenue damage even more.

Kaite: I like it. I think this is like I said, this is that final stone to at least make us know where we’re going. I could now see us connecting a lot of the dots as a whole. I do wonder if we’re going to get, I guess in general, I think I’m wondering what we’re getting as an end credit, because I will say, if there’s one thing Sony is notorious for, it’s a pretty interesting end credit scene, whether we like it or we don’t.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, they don’t disappoint in the sense that they get a reaction whether it’s, oh my God, I can’t believe they just flouted the rules of the Multiverse again, or oh my God, Venom is in our universe briefly, like on both sides of the spectrum, they get a reaction. If you’re asking me what my prediction is, because I forgot that we do this for movies, because it’s been a hot minute since we’ve had a movie. Oh man, I’m just going to go ahead and tell you what I want and what I want is a live action Miles Morales. And if you’re going to talk to me about the Web of Life and Destiny, go show me Miles. Are we there yet? No. Do I fully recognize that? Yes, whatever. 

Katie: I mean, okay, fair, fair points were made. I would have to say I don’t really know if I have like a for sure one, but I think ideally I’d like one that nail in coffin kind of moment where it’s like we all speculated what was going to happen in this movie or what this movie was going to open to. We watched the movie. I would be so happy to see, like, Julia Carpenter show up and like pan over and it’s something with Spider-Man or like Tom Holland’s Spider-Man or something. I would just like another nail in the coffin of a connection, even if I’m mad, even if it’s like Morbius level, it doesn’t make sense to me mad. I want to see more connections because at least it lets me think. It lets me theorize on how we’re getting there and if this web is in existence and we’re going off of that, I could start to at least be like, okay, well, I’m blaming it on this. And somehow the Spider-people are ending up in the wrong places and we’re seeing another one. We have another point of proof. So that is what I would like to see. I don’t have a specific one, but somewhere in that realm.

Taylor: I just had a thought and I’m going to go with my less interesting thought first, and then I’m going to give you one that may make you fall out of your chair. Are you ready?

Katie: Oh, God okay.

Taylor: Okay, so my less interesting one is that yes, I do hope that we get a time jump into present day, whatever present day is, because we don’t actually know right now. Maybe it’s Julia, maybe it’s actually Cassie Webb, whatever, or maybe it’s all all four of them. I don’t know, maybe they all make it the last scene of the film as they jump into some thing somewhere, maybe they find out how to access the Web of Life and Destiny, unclear and now they’re suddenly in modern day. That would solve your Sydney Sweeney and Dakota Johnson aging problem, there you go. Now, what could happen and this is the thing that I think may make you fall off your chair.

Katie: Oh, God.

Taylor: We all know that there’s a certain movie that a certain segment of Spider-Man fans have been itching for for a very long time, and it’s the one movie that they refuse to make, even though they keep making all these other random movies about deep cut characters. What if they go into the future and we go to a future that is Andrew’s Spider-Man, and it is a backdoor lead up to his third movie?

Katie: I would have to say I’d be very happy. 

Taylor: That’s such a mild reaction compared to what I was expecting. 

Katie: I am very happy, but I have allowed myself zero hope in this department for a long time, so I am not going to think, to your point, Sony, who will put out every other Marvel or every other Spider-Man related person first, will actually make the third and only movie anybody’s asking them to make. I can’t imagine they’d actually do that just because we’ve been begging for a long time over here. I like it, and I like the thought process and knowing that they wanted this to be Andrew’s universe, Tom’s just doesn’t really make sense to me. And really, if you think about it, Andrew’s movie was only in like 2014, and then Tom came on the scene in 2016 like they were not far apart. I think people forget that because there was definitely a bigger time jump between Toby’s and Andrew’s. So I think you have to acknowledge that age wise, some of these characters could work. It’s a little bit of a stretch, but some people age differently. Who knows? I wouldn’t be against them doing that, I think it would make more sense. Like I said, I’d rather they dump all of this into Andrew’s universe and just let Tom be controlled by Marvel and let Marvel do what they need to do with that Spider-Man, other than what they did with Venom, that works for me. I’m okay with that, great, you’re setting up the symbiote, love it, but otherwise have all of this in Andrew’s. Run with it, that’s what the people want, so just do it.

Taylor: You heard ‘em, Sony.

Katie: Yeah, Sony.

Taylor: All right, well, on that note, with our very bold proclamation and our deep, deep ask for Sony that they put it all in Andrew and they maybe give him his third movie. We are going to call it a wrap on our Madame Web predictions. Though, I don’t even know that we predicted all that much because nobody really knows.

Katie: But what do you predict? I mean, I feel like we were predicting some things on like where we go from here because I don’t know what the heck this movie’s really about, other than the fact that bad Spider-Man is coming after three non yet Spider-Women and trying to kill them. That is what I know and then there’s somebody who sees the future who is like, uh uh, no, don’t kill these girls for x, y, z reasons and she’s interfering. That is the synopsis of the movie. 

Taylor: What is that thing? Summarize the film plot badly.

Katie: Well, you know what? Am I right, though?

Taylor: You are, you are. And so on that note, it took us nearly an hour for us to tell you exactly what the film is going to be about in less than 30s. Thanks, Kate. Make sure that you are following on your podcast platform of choice to come back with us when we actually see the film and have our reactions and get to talk more deeply about where to go from here. You can also check out our website, which is the central hub to all things Sisters Assembled, and we highly recommend you spend some time on there. There’s some good stuff, some blogs, some transcripts, all that good stuff so if you’re more of a reader, you can also check it out there. But definitely make sure you’re checking out the site and staying with us, because there is much more to come from the Madame Web coverage.

Katie: You guys can also give us a follow on Twitter at SisAssembledPod, Instagram and Threads at SistesrAssembled and subscribe to us on YouTube at Sisters Assembled just to keep up with the show as things are coming out and to keep up with us as hosts. As Taylor said, there is much more Madame Web coverage coming, the first being our reactions to the movie. So make sure you guys are getting your tickets, we have ours and I am very excited to some level to see this movie. So get ready to at least go to the theaters to see it. We’ll be there. We’re going to do coverage, be prepared for whatever Sony is going to throw away. And as always, make sure you guys are keeping up with Marvel, including the Sony adjacent films and our show, because Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.