Transcript

Taylor: Hello, listeners, and welcome to Sisters Assembled. It’s going to be an episode today, and if you have seen X-Men ‘97 Episode Five, you know exactly why we’re not coming on with our usual level of chipper. I cried today, Katelyn cried today and we’re going to try really, really hard not to cry during this recording but I can’t make any promises. So without any other waxing poetic, I’m going to turn it over to the person on this show who has been most impacted by the horrible events of today, and just let her talk it out for a while. 

Katie: Why do I even choose to love? Why do I love anything? Because you know what? All I get is sadness whenever I choose a character to care about. Black Widow’s dead. Scarlet Witch has gone through extensive trauma. Bucky’s been tortured throughout most of his life. Loki has had family issues out of the wazoo. Now I’m out here with Gambit, I put my faith in one character, one character to love and, you know, Marvel was like, we see you and we raise you, and here we are. And I like I’m trying not to cry right now, I’m not even gonna lie, I’m so sad. 

Taylor: Yeah, a little bit of background on how today went down in the Sisters Assembled households via the internet. So I started the episode like I always do on my way to work. 

Katie: Oh, and I blame you for everything because you were like, you’re gonna love this episode, it’s so good, not letting me know you didn’t finish it. So then I watched the episode and I was like, wow, what is she talking about? It was really good, but I was like, what is she talking about? Did she not watch the same episode I just watched? What is wrong with her? 

Taylor: Yeah, okay, so to back it up a couple of steps, I started the episode on my way to work, got about a third of the way through, and what I saw was just a lot of our favorite love triangle getting some serious screen time. And so I texted Kate, I was like, bro, you’re going to love this episode. I stopped at the 12-minute mark just so everybody knows. I go to work and I get this text from her and she’s like, what is wrong with you? Like, do you have no heart? Are you that insensitive that you don’t even like, say anything to me? And I was like, dude like I’m only a third of the way through the episode, I don’t know what you’re talking about, but just don’t tell me anything else and then she was like, don’t read my snap or open my snap and I was like, noted. So then I continued to watch the episode on my way home, a little nervous that I might start to cry in public, which in New York isn’t really that big a deal, and I’ve definitely done it before so I was like, wouldn’t be my first time. I managed to get like ten more minutes in on my commute home and I was doing okay. I got home, I sat on my couch, and then the screaming started and it started when I realized that Leech was in the path of that super mega Sentinel, and I was like, oh my God, not little Leach like, absolutely not. After the first series, I’ve grown kind of attached to the little guy and so I was like, not Leach.

Katie: Is he supposed to grow up, though? Because like, how much time keeps passing and he’s always a child.

Taylor: I don’t care. 

Katie: I know it’s not the important point, but I just feel like that just dawned on me. He never really seems to age. 

Taylor: It doesn’t matter. He’s adorable, okay, that’s all I care about. Anyway, o I was so concerned because I was like, no, not Leach. And then it was Magneto and I was like, why do I feel this about Magneto? And then I was like, I know why I feel that’s about Magneto. Then he died after this very dramatic, like, sacrificial moment with Leach, by the way, and then Katelyn’s moment of horror happened and then I sent her a sobbing Snapchat back to her sobbing Snapchat she sent me earlier in the day. So that’s a very brief recap of how the reactions happened for everyone who participates in this podcast.

Katie: Yeah, it was actually like the worst ever and it was the best episode of TV I think I might have ever watched. Do not get me wrong.

Taylor: It was incredible. It was so good.

Katie: From start to finish. These are those moments where I like not knowing the comics, because a lot of people were like, even the ones who did know the comics were saying, I’m shocked they implemented this. I didn’t think this was what they were going to be doing. This is insane that they did this – all amazing praise. But I was so happy in my own way that I had no idea what direction we were going to go with this because as it was happening, I was going through every emotion in my brain like I was feeling everything. Obviously, to Taylor’s point, it starts off like Genosha, yay, and obviously you’re thinking like, this isn’t going to last forever. We know something is going to have to happen, it’s just what goes on. But I was like my fave love triangle, let’s do this thing, let’s go and I was like, eating it all up. Then you have the cuts over to Scott and Jean fighting and I’m like, oh, eating, eating.

Taylor: Drama.

Katie: The drama. I was like, I am watching this purely for this right now. I don’t even care, nothing has to happen, I’m living, I’m here for this. Then Madelyne Pryor showed up at one point and I was like, where did we get you? Like what?

Taylor: She’s out here leading Genosha. She somehow like, got herself in. I was like, go girl. 

Katie: But like how did you get there? 

Taylor: You’ve only known you were a clone for like two weeks, and you’re out here leading a country that is some boss babe energy.

Katie: No literally. There were just so many things happening and then just out of random, like, just everything starts falling apart, and again, this made me happy I had no idea this was the direction. I think about Lifedeath, we talked about it last week because we saw part one. Part two is next week, Episode Six, we’ve done the research.

Taylor: Which by the way, I am so annoyed about because this is what we were talking about – and I’ll let you get back to what you were saying in a second – but this is what we were talking about last week. 

Katie: Yeah, no, I agree.

Taylor: If this is Lifedeath part two, which it is, that’s what it says. I’m sure they will address what happened in Genosha because I don’t know how you go an entire episode without it. However, the fact actually technically, if they’re in another dimension, they will not even know.

Katie: They wouldn’t know.

Taylor: Yeah. So they could conceivably go an entire episode without addressing the absolute trauma that they imparted on us this episode. This is why it comes down to placing your episodes in an appropriate and meaningful order because now I’m just not only sad, but I’m angry because now I have to wait two weeks to have my heart ripped out again.

Katie: Right because the second part of this is Episode Seven. 

Taylor: Yeah and I’m not excited. I’m not excited at all that I have to wait and it’s annoying because I do want to explore the Storm storyline. So it’s also doing a disservice to that storyline because I’m dreading it because it’s not the one that I want to see more of. It’s not that I don’t want to see her storyline. If you had just completed it this episode and then gone right into Remember It, perfect, now we can do it in an order that makes sense and is where the audience’s attention is. So I’m sorry, that is my soapbox for this episode but now having seen Remember It, I’m even more aggravated at the order that they chose to release these because it is completely nonsensical and super annoying as an audience member.

Katie: I 100% agree with that. What I was going to say, and I’ll finish that thought and then I’ll fully go to what you just said, I was going to say the difference here was Lifedeath we’ve done our research on. We know possibly the direction it could go after this, I’m not sure this is the direction it’s going to go because or the comic book story is the direction it’s going to go, just because we talked about it last week but all the X-Men end up sacrificing themselves, but get brought back later. It’s a whole thing. I knew where it could go. I had no clue what I was walking into this episode, but to what you said yeah, I’m annoyed because you just had genocide. We don’t know who did it, and that’s something we’ll get to, but it’s not confirmed who did it. We don’t know who’s dead fully. And the worst part is, is like the worst but the best is like, you know, it’s going to get undone. 

Taylor: It has to. 

Katie: Well, because Cable was there, which means we got some time traveling crap going down and it’s going to get undone and we know that’s going to happen. Also, they didn’t just kill one of the main X-Men. That’s just – actually not even just him though, because obviously he’s the only thing on my mind – but Magneto, like you don’t just kill those two characters and you’re just casually like, they’ll never return. No, it’s not going to work like that. 

Taylor: No and I mean, think about it this way without Charles gone, Magneto is stepping in for Charles, right? And not to mention, and this is something that we’ve talked about in previous episodes, Magneto is going to have the turn right like he has been really I don’t think it’s an act like now that we’ve seen it for a couple of episodes, he turned down power. He is really trying to do things the right way, and I don’t think he’s doing it to manipulate. I do think that he is truly trying to honor, potentially, other than maybe Rogue, the only person he’s ever really loved, which is Charles, and he’s tried to do right by him, by living his life the way that Charles would have wanted, and making the choices that Charles is no longer here to make. I do think that in this episode, we saw the beginning of his willpower to live that way, break down when he attacks that Sentinel at the end, screaming ‘they will be avenged!’ Because at the end of the day, no matter who is responsible, and like Katie said, we will talk about that because I have my own theories but no matter who is responsible, he is going to view this as an attack on mutants by humans and go back to his whole belief system that they cannot coexist peacefully because he just watched hundreds, maybe even thousands, we don’t know all of his people be slaughtered. 

Katie: And I want to remind everybody Magneto also lived through the concentration camps of World War Two. That is pivotal to his story and who he is and so I think that needs to be put out there as well, to remember that not only did he watch his people when he was a child be slaughtered and murdered, but then now he’s living it again as a 67-year-old man with the mutants. I agree, to me, when he is resurrected and now listen, this could go a lot of different ways. If it’s time travel, technically none of this happened, so maybe we’ll never see it. But if in some way, shape, or form it does end differently, let’s say it’s a what-if scenario here, one thing happens differently, we don’t see Magneto perish with the Morlocks. We don’t see Gambit do what he does to save Rogue and sacrifice himself. We don’t see everybody like Nightcrawler and some of the other iconic characters we’ve seen over the OG series I guess be killed. That was the thing that it seemed as it was implied that these characters were being killed so I don’t know. We could see things go differently. We could never see it happen at all. But I do think if it goes differently, we will see Magneto switch. 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, and can you blame the guy? 

Katie: No. 

Taylor: I mean, I could totally empathize with he’s thought this way all along, and then he tries to tread the right path, the Charles path, and what happens? Exactly what he warned Charles about this whole time. And I think this is the perfect segway cause we’ve alluded to it a couple of times, but I want to talk about who we think did it, because I think you can take this two ways, I have my personal preference. I think the first way is obviously there is a lot of prejudice against mutants that has never been hidden in this show, it’s always been highlighted. It’s been a main theme of this new season thus far with everything that’s happened. It could very easily be that for sure. It could be Gyrich or whatever his name is, or the, Friends of Humanity or the Executioner who has taken his capabilities to the next level because think about that. Those were some really powerful weapons. Who else has access to the Sentinel technology to really expand it in the way that they have because that was really actually horrifying. But I think the better, more interesting option is that it was actually someone who is trying to further the mutant agenda by doing exactly what happened to Charles Xavier and creating a martyr-type situation. Think about how the tide turned after Charles, quote-unquote, died, or at least to the human community, he’s dead. Now all of a sudden Genosha is in the UN because Magneto had the opportunity to go on trial and have that experience. They’re getting, you know, news broadcast from the mansion where they’re able to tell their stories and talk about the challenges that they face as mutants, things that they never had happen to them, opportunities that they never had to humanize themselves in the eyes of normal humans. That all happened primarily from the starting point of Charles Xavier’s quote-unquote, death. Now, think about how the tide and the tone will change after what happened in Genosha. You already saw it in the newscast from outside the mansion when she talked about how no matter how you feel or what your thoughts are on the recent political climate, these images are disturbing. There is something about a mass casualty event or a tragedy of that scale that puts politics out the window. A lot of times that unity doesn’t last very long, that’s something that we talked about in the past with Xavier’s death, that that unity won’t always last. But maybe someone who is trying to further mutant rights decided to make that tone, those feelings, that unity lasts a little bit longer, and thought to themselves, well, what’s a few mutants to sacrifice for the greater good of the future of generations of of mutants? That I think is the much more interesting option and it falls in line a lot more with what we’ve seen from the show in the past. The idea that the obvious solution is never the right one. It’s always someone who’s a little bit backward in their thinking. 

Katie: That is a very interesting take. I never even considered it and so when you were just explaining it, I was like, I’m enjoying this.

Taylor: Thank you. 

Katie: My obvious one was Gyrich and those who have been involved with the Sentinels in the past but I do like your way of thinking that it’s not that obvious. Is it necessarily a mutant that I’m not sure of? I also leave that open-ended because Mr. Sinister is not a mutant. Now, I only bring him up primarily because we have been told prior to this show, and I’ve said it before on our podcast, that he is supposed to be the main villain. We so far have only seen him in Episode Three. We are halfway through the show or this season. Could he be behind it? Could he have the motive? You said yourself, it’s somebody who doesn’t quite think straight, kind of think in a roundabout way. Well, Mr. Sinister first off, is fully convinced he’s a mutant, even though he literally is not. He has done science experiments to himself to make himself who he is. 

Taylor: Oh, fun fact by the way, I have now finished the original series, so I am fully aware of what you’re saying. 

Katie: Okay, perfect. 

Taylor: Mission accomplished. 

Katie: Yes, but Mr. Sinister, not a mutant, did not have the mutant gene. He is like an Avenger kind of person.

Taylor: Enhanced, but not a mutant. 

Katie: Yeah, like he’s honestly kind of to me, similar to the Hulk. Where it’s kind of like he was trying to do one thing and then turned into something else on accident, because science is obviously not always perfect, and that’s kind of my equivalent to it. I could see him having that backward type of thinking at this point, because okay, so we spend Episode Six doing the whole Lifedeath thing. Then we have Episode Seven, which brings us back to this. Then we have a three-part ending for 8, 9 and 10. Arguably you could say that’s where Mr. Sinister comes in to shine. Okay, but this is not going to get swept under the rug with part two. This is not the end of that. I think it’ll get undone, but I don’t think they’re going to solve who necessarily did it.

Taylor: I do also want to point out that the next episode will be a direct sequel to Episode Five, so Episode Seven is called Bright Eyes and who has glowy eyes? Mr. Sinister. So there is that from a very literal standpoint, there’s that to consider as well. 

Katie: Yeah, so I think the possibilities there. I do like thinking outside the box. Otherwise, I mean, I will say we saw the Sentinels at the beginning. We saw that the Friends of Humanity are involved with them. Do I think that they’re smart enough to have pulled together the science to rebuild and plan this type of attack? No, I really don’t. I don’t think they pulled off the attack. I don’t think they planned it. I just don’t think it’s in their wheelhouse. They don’t think that far ahead, they don’t think that far outside of the box, that’s just simple to me. It’s definitely somebody with a bigger agenda and to me, I’m going to throw out Mr. Sinister just because why not? Not to mention who’s sitting pretty on Genosha? His Jean Grey clone that fled from him. Just a thought. It could have been a little more targeted than it seemed. 

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, I think there’s also the element of whatever is happening between the two of them, they’re like mental explosion things that are happening. So whether that’s maybe like two halves of the – they’re not the same mind, they’re different people but I’m kind of viewing their memories as almost like one got some parts and the other got other parts, even though they have the same memories, it’s almost like they were split a little bit. And so I’m almost wondering if there’s some sort of psychic connection that’s trying to bring them together, essentially. And who would be responsible? Well, it would be their maker or well, Maddy’s maker, because Jean is Jean. 

Katie: She’s real. 

Taylor: Yeah, she was born.

Katie: Naturally. 

Taylor: That was really hard to explain or should not have been that hard to explain. But yeah, I mean, I think that’s an interesting thing too. Is there some sort of, for lack of a better term, lever that Mr. Sinister is pulling to try to get his Jean and his Maddy back because he has neither one now, he doesn’t have Cable. So like he doesn’t have any of the things he set out to get when he hatched his little scheme. We’ve still not gotten the resolution to when Jean was taken and when Maddy was put in her place. So I definitely think that that’s something, especially because that storyline of Jean and Maddy and Scott has kind of been underneath everything, right? So I definitely think that with that being a main plotline, even if it’s not necessarily the main point of every episode, that’s going to be resolved this season. I don’t think is going to go into Season Two, definitely not into Season Three. So I think at some point we do have to bring Mr. Sinister back and figure out when this all went down when the swap happened. And I do think that there’s something to be said about their mental fireworks or their mental connection that we’re now starting to see happen between the two of them, for what seems like the first time because they were both very surprised by it.

Katie: Yeah and I actually, while we’re here, there’s like a path in front of us and it splits and there’s two ways we could go, but I actually want to go the Jean/Scott route first, because once we get past that, we could just go right into all the Genosha stuff. I’m intrigued by this mental connection because I actually like what you said, where it seemed like he almost picked and chose memories and was like half of this one goes here, half of this one goes here. Because even back in Episode Three, they both reference being the Phoenix and yet they both were like, hold on, I was, not you and they’re very confused by this. I also think it’s interesting because she has a telepathic link to Scott, Madeline does, which is what sets off, obviously, the fight between Jean and Scott because Jean’s like – which listen, Jean, lots of love. You didn’t ask to be replaced by a clone, I 100% get it. However, and it’s a big however, you cannot be mad at Scott for marrying her, having a telepathic link that you always had with him, and having a child with her. He did not know it was you or not. It seemed like you. How was he supposed to know? I get it’s hard because to you it’s like, oh, might as well as just cheated on me. You lived a whole life with another version of me and you didn’t seem to care it wasn’t me. He did not know, nobody did. 

Taylor: And honestly, if I’m Jean, I’m almost more flattered because I’m like you literally when she says that line to him about, oh, you just find any version of me to love. I’m like, girl, he literally loves you so much he would love not even the real you, as long as it had a semblance of you. That’s how in love with you this man is and you’re twisting it into something sinister. 

Katie: Yeah, and I’m no Scott and Jean-like person, but I will say that’s where my main man – our other love triangle here – my main man Logan, came in because he was in her head, not on purpose, he really wasn’t like he was just being him. He’s always told her pretty much that he’s in love with her and just like always, lets her reject him. And I mean, like, shout out.

Taylor: What a real one. 

Katie: Yeah, imagine that. But he got in her head because he was like, I will always have just picked you. You’re one version, just you. Meanwhile, she watched her, what was supposed to be her husband out here, get married, have a child, have the telepathic link, which is apparently very personal, which we found out during this episode and she was like, wow, okay. Meanwhile, Logan’s like, no, I would have always known it was you and picked you, just you, and I’m like, yeah, but did you? 

Taylor: I was going to say like, let’s be honest, because he was going after pregnant Jean too. 

Katie: Yeah. He has no boundaries but he knows his words better and it definitely will hurt less in my opinion, coming from somebody who’s like, it always will have just been you or whatever versus watching the fact that your husband – because Logan’s still single too. That’s the other thing. It’s not like he found a version of Jean and dated her like he didn’t do that. He’s still single. So I think it’s just the idea of the person who was supposed to love her so much, he just went with another version of her versus Logan didn’t. And I just think it’s that even if there are so many clauses in that and things that you have to be like, but did he? I just think on the surface she’s like, but he didn’t, meanwhile, Scott did. 

Taylor: Yeah. Which is like honestly incredibly unfair to Scott and I’ve said this a few times, like I don’t always love Scott. I think he’s a great character, don’t get me wrong but sometimes he drives me up a wall. 

Katie: He’s such a Boy Scout. 

Taylor: Yes, he is so straight-laced and I think I might dislike him so much because I can sometimes be the same way and it’s not my favorite thing about myself, which I’m surprised Katelyn hasn’t pointed out. 

Katie: Oh my God, wait, that is why I don’t like him as much because he reminds me of you. You’re so right. 

Taylor: Yep, I set myself up for that one. I set myself up because as soon as I started saying it, I was like, oh man, this is going to not end well for me so I’m glad we got that off our chest. I’m surprised it didn’t happen in an earlier episode, but Katelyn secretly hates me and now we’re moving on. 

Katie: Happy National Siblings Day! Yay! 

Taylor: But yeah, I think that was definitely interesting. I think in terms of how it relates to the evolution of their relationship, I actually thought that they were making progress towards trying to reconcile and then obviously they took a few steps back. I do think it’s interesting that all of this time Scott’s been talking to Madelyne. I mean, that was a bold choice. I get it, she’s the mother of your child. Technically, you’re married to her, but my guy, like, before, you were totally innocent in this in that you had plausible deniability about everything that you did up until you found out that your wife was not who you thought it was, but keeping a very intimate mental, telepathic link with the woman who is not the woman you originally thought it was even though she’s your wife and the mother of your child, that was an active choice that you in fact did do. 

Katie: That is where my guy’s guilty and it’s only because all you had to do was tell Jean and she could have been mad. That’s okay. She will get mad, you will probably fight, and it’ll solve itself. It’ll work out. Not telling her is the problem and this is where we we learn a valuable lesson, listeners, that leaving things out is still considered lying. 

Taylor: There’s a term called lying by omission for a reason. 

Katie: Exactly and this is a valuable lesson learned by Scott. So that is where he had a bad that was not, no, that was not good. I don’t blame her because also then finding out the way she did pretty much like going into his brain and there’s Madelyne and she’s like, what are you doing here? And I’m like, oh, yikes, showed up to the wrong house.

Taylor: Literally but also, it was such a confusing scene. I was like, why are there two of them? And then I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, because it goes to Madelyne and Genosha.

Katie: Yeah, I didn’t get it until Jean freaked out and then I understood and then yeah, then we’re like, here’s Madelyne in Genosha and I’m like, lots of feelings about this. So far, I’m going to be honest, not loving how Madelyne’s been being done as a character only because a lot has happened, girly. You’ve lost your child, you’ve lost your husband. Actually, you found out your husband technically didn’t really love you because he loved the main version of you, and you’re just a carbon copy and we’re fine? I’m not loving that part of the storyline here, because I definitely think we needed her and I said this in Episode Three, I wanted more Goblin Queen. Okay, we didn’t get it, but I kind of wish she hadn’t shown up here because it’s so awkward. I liked her more not knowing where she was and where she could pop up and maybe take a villainy route and now I’m like, oh, she’s like chillin’ on Genosha. I mean, now she’s dead.

Taylor: Is she dead? Did we see her body? 

Katie: Listen, I’m going to assume she was dead because she was like face first, one of the first to get blasted out of thin air. So I think she didn’t make it. 

Taylor: Okay, fair I just because when they first showed the redhead under the rubble, that’s who I thought it was and then you saw Rogue come out and you saw the white parts of her hair and everything, and it was clear that it wasn’t. But because they’re both redheads and the way that they had lit the scene or done the coloration of the scene, I originally was like, oh my gosh, that’s why Cable and we’ll get to Cable in a second, I’m sure but that’s why Cable says, I’m sorry, mother because he knows he can’t save his own mother and we are going to see Madelyne’s body under the rubble. So, yeah, I mean, I am definitely very curious and if she is dead, that could mean a whole host of different things for Mr. Sinister and his plans, because now he doesn’t have the full set of both Madelyne and Jean unless he has another clone in his back pocket, which, I mean, how many did he make? Unclear. Another question for us to all maybe never answer.

Katie: Yeah, I was honestly thinking the same thing. But to go into Cable because this was the other path we could go down and let’s just get into the start of the Genosha here. Cable showing up. I think this will all be undone somehow or another. There’s a reason. That’s why he said start going to warn people, get people out, whatever. He’s there to try and stop it, that’s why he transports himself out of there. He clearly cannot die there because, well, for a lot of reasons with time travel in general but he’s probably trying to stop it so he cannot physically die or that would not be very helpful to anyone. However, here’s the first time confirmed Cable is not just Madelyne’s son, but she knows it. Now, I still question does he know that’s Madelyne?

Taylor: See, it’s so funny because I was thinking about this before we got on because I was going to point out specifically he knows that Madelyne is his mother now and not Jean. I think he has to know. 

Katie: I think so too. 

Taylor: Here’s why: because she’s no longer calling herself Jean. She’s very clearly out in public as Madelyne Pryor, and if he’s going back and looking at historical records, he’s going to see that Madelyne Pryor was murdered on Genosha, not Jean Grey, because Jean Grey was still in the United States. So I think at this point, it is safe to say that Madelyne and Cable both know their relationship with one another, and that is all out in the open, any confusion is gone. Scott is the only one who’s still in the dark, potentially. 

Katie: Okay. I also, in this moment kind of thought he knows and then obviously this is the moment where she realizes who her son is because she says, you made it. She knows that he lived. 

Taylor: Yeah. Which is a beautiful moment. 

Katie: It is and it’s also really sad because it proves that we never will see Nathan return. And I said this in one of our blog posts, logistically speaking, makes sense. What are they going to do with the baby floating around? Like, truly, what do you do in a storyline and then you’re just like, let’s roll up on home the baby needs to get the diaper changed or something. I don’t know, like, what do you do? 

Taylor: That’s what Jubilee is for. If we’re not going to actually make her an X-Man, you got a built-in babysitter. 

Katie: Now she babysits. No, because she needs a babysitter. That’s literally like, their whole thing is that she needs to be babysat.

Taylor: That poor girl. 

Katie: Truly but I guess then this just shows because, like I said, logistically made sense. I guess in general I was thinking, wow, he lasted two episodes, not even. He was born in one and then it was gone in the next, like, wow, okay, not super enticing I guess, to that storyline, but whatever. It makes enough sense but this confirms it or at least if he confirms it to Madelyne, she never sees him. She never meets him. If he does ever come back to the present day, she never gets to see him. This is the moment in which she realizes her son will make it. He’s clearly like an old man, and also we don’t know how long he’s been living because he has all sorts of modifications so he could be older than he even looks.

Taylor: Yeah and I think it’s safe to say, you know, because Scott keeps recognizing Madelyne as the mother of his child, even to Jean, even though he knows it’s going to set her off. He recognizes Madelyne is the mother of my child, that if Nathan were to come back at any point during his growth as maybe a toddler, someone brings him back whoever found him or an adolescent or a teen or whatever at any stage and he had come across his father, and that recognition between the two of them was ever realized, he would have contacted Madelyne because he has enough respect to realize this is the mother of my child. So I think it’s safe to say, at least at this stage, that this is the only time that she’s going to see him, and it’s right before she’s potentially dead, which is really, really sad.

Katie: It’s very sad and I felt really bad for her at that moment because I’m like, you lost everything, and now you lost your life. 

Taylor: Yeah and none of it was because of choices you made. All of these choices were made for you and that’s the worst part. Like, I’m all about actions having consequences and when people do dumb stuff and they have bad consequences, it’s like, well, what did you expect? Like you did X, Y, and Z. Madelyne was just created, she just was created, she had these memories, she lived what she thought was her life. It was going pretty darn okay and then it just exploded one day and you got to feel bad for the girl. 

Katie: I 100% feel bad for her and that’s why I wanted her to go off on a villain arc hardcore because I would have. I would’ve been like what the actual crap do you think is happening here and you expect me to just take it and leave? Okay, like what? But she didn’t, it’s okay, she had her moment, it’s over. Let’s get into the genocide on Genosha and by doing so, I think we have to unbox I don’t want to say anymore that it’s my favorite love triangle because it’s so wrapped in sadness right now that I don’t want it to sound horrible by saying that.

Taylor: It’s also not a love triangle anymore, it’s a love line because there’s only one person still alive from that triangle. 

Katie: Okay, okay. Hold on. Let’s just get into this. First and foremost, did I not say – Rogue listen, Rogue, this is a message to you. Girly, just because you can touch someone doesn’t mean you love them. Did I not say episodes ago that her attraction to Magneto has actually very little to do with feelings for him, and is likely due to her ability to actually touch him when she cannot actually touch Gambit. Did I not say that? 

Taylor: Yes, and here’s why I’ll say it’s smart the way that they played it out because she needed to learn the lesson. She needed to come to the conclusion herself that though she and Gambit and their relationship have their limitations, that is more important. And I know what I’ve been saying the whole time. I’ve been supporting the girl, getting what she needs to get, and having that physical aspect of her relationship. Sure, I think that’s important, but I also think if you look at it from a larger character development arc, that she even from the first series, the original series, it has been so important to her to see these couples who have this physical aspect of their relationship and she’s so jealous and she wants that. Now I think she finally came to the conclusion where she’s able to say, we just have a less-than-traditional relationship. It’s not the same as other people, but the feelings, the emotions, the connection on an emotional level that is there. So I think that’s a beautiful arc for her, and I’m all here for it.

Katie: Which is amazing and then I’m going to hit the other point of why I’m really mad at Rogue, because not only did you notice this, great, okay, whatever. Everybody else saw it coming, everybody else knew, but here, this is another message to Miss Rogue. If I ever catch you mutant or not, we’re fighting. It’s going down in the middle of a street. I don’t care, because you are the sole reason my boy is dead because he has to love you. Meanwhile, you flipped out because Magneto died. Listen, you just picked Gambit. You just picked him. Did we forget? But now you’re like, oh, no, I’m not going to have some old white, silver fox, whatever color he wants to be pining after me and so I’m going to lose everything. I’m going to lose my crap and in doing so. Gambit’s like she’s about to murder herself, suicide mission right there. So he sacrifices himself to not just save you, but to save everybody and it is your fault. So if I catch you, we are fighting on the spot. I do not care. It’s over for you. Mutant or not, I don’t care. It’s over. Thank you. 

Taylor: Okay. Two things, two things. One, I’m going to get in the corner for Rogue for a hot second.

Katie: Oh, Taylor I will fight with you right now. Do not play devil’s advocate right now. This is not the time and place.

Taylor: I am because, listen, this show is all about the multiple perspectives and we have to air it. We have to give the girl her defense, her air time, right? Innocent until proven guilty. Here’s the thing-.

Katie: She’s guilty.

Taylor: Thought she chose Gambit – which again, right choice – that doesn’t mean she felt nothing for Magneto. Let me put it in terms that I think you can understand. Though Belly chose Conrad, that doesn’t mean she never felt anything for Jeremiah. So she – in an emotional state after watching someone who she did love be literally pulverized by a laser, she reacted in probably what she wouldn’t have done if she had had the time to process her feelings, feel them, and think about the situation. She acted out of instinct in a time of pain. Do I think it is frustrating that Gambit died because of it? Sure. But can I also empathize with the poor girl who just lost someone that she cared about deeply? Also, yes.

Katie: I will admit, when you put it in the terms of The Summer I Turned Pretty, I understand, however, if I catch you in the street, Rogue, it’s over.

Taylor: My second point is to that point, I actually think she would let you beat her. 

Katie: Good.

Taylor: Because I think that’s what we’re going to see moving forward.

Katie: Self-hatred.

Taylor: Depending on how long this takes to be reversed, is she is going to feel so guilty not only for not saving Magneto because we know she tried multiple times but also because she is the reason the Gambit is dead. So not only is it someone she cared about in Magneto that she wasn’t able to save, though, she tried, but also being the sole reason that the man that she chose, the man that she truly loves, sacrificed himself? Oh, that’s going to eat her alive.

Katie: As it should. She should carry that guilty conscience for the rest of her life because I’m upset. I’m very upset. I’m crying, not right now but like in general, I’m crying. I’m upset about this and listen, on top of all of it, on top of it all, I mean, I’m glad she picked Gambit, as she should. She marries him in the comics, they are currently married. They make it work. I want to see them finally be together. I mean, Gambit even says to her I was fine not putting a label on it, I was fine not making it official, I was just yours and you were still mine like that was fine. And so I hope when this all gets undone or whatever has to happen to do whatever we need to see my Gambit back, we can actually see the two of them pursue a relationship.

Taylor: Agreed. 

Katie: Also, though, and this is now to Marvel, this is a message to Marvel. 

Taylor: You are just calling everybody out tonight. 

Katie: I am, I am. If I had a nickel for every time one of my favorite characters and or couples has to say, ‘I don’t feel you’ while one of them is dead in the other’s arms or close to their arms, I would have two nickels, and that doesn’t seem like a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice because are you kidding me? I’m already crying and then you’re like, oh, ha ha ha ha, let her quote Wanda from WandaVision when she is over Vision’s dead body disassembled because robot but like what? What? Who said yes? Who in the writer’s room greenlit that? Because the way I couldn’t handle that. And then it just went to black and it was over. Are you kidding me? Who? No. Marvel, I’m sad, I’m upset with you right now. I’m upset. 

Taylor: Yeah, that one was like, they’re in pain, how can we amplify the pain by ten? I don’t know, let’s take one of the most gut-wrenching scenes that we’ve ever done, movie, TV, show, anything. That scene is quoted so much as one of the most traumatizing scenes for a character. Whenever you see those lists or whenever you see those tweets about, you know, listing characters, traumas and all that, that is a scene that is tied to Wanda’s trauma on so many levels, and it is brought up again and again and again and they said, let’s layer it with something new. And now those words, now those words are going to make you think of two things that are going to hurt you so deeply that your heart will go in two like these two different examples and it’s just unfair. I don’t know why they had to put icing on the pain cake, but they said, let’s do it.

Katie: I’m genuinely shaking over here right now, and I can’t tell if it’s pure anger or if it’s me being upset or I’m anxious, I don’t know, but I can’t believe they did that. I really cannot believe they did that. And the worst part is, and this might be controversial, but as fans of now both couples and being on both ends of it, one couple having my favorite be the one who’s living, the other having my favorite be the one who has died – I actually think it’s semi more impactful and again, controversial, that Rogue and Gambit had that line because Rogue takes people’s life essentially and powers when she touches them. When she says she can’t feel him, she can’t. There’s no life to take. I know sounds dark, but it’s definitely like there’s that to say. 

Taylor: But going off of that, that’s one of the first times, one of the only times she’s ever felt the touch of his skin and he was dead.

Katie: Other than when they’ve kissed, I believe in the OG series. The one time they kissed and she took some of his powers. And exactly that’s what I mean. I know it’s more emotional, I should say, for Wanda and Vision because that’s kind of a through line for them. It happens in Infinity War when she’s always saying, like, I just feel you when she’s feeling the stone for him and stuff so I understand emotionally that. But I think on a deeper level, just like even the physicality of it, it means more I think, for Rogue and Gambit, because she can’t take a life that’s not there and that is so heartbreaking. 

Taylor: Yeah, yeah, I don’t even know what to say. There’s one other thing that really hit me in the aftermath of Genosha, and it is just the scene of the X-Men sitting on the couch watching it happen on TV and knowing that those are their friends who are probably all dead and they don’t even know yet. They don’t know that Kurt’s probably dead. They don’t know that Magnus is definitely dead, that Gambit is dead and the only one of their friends – oh, Maddie too – the only one of their friends who’s probably going to make it out alive is Rogue because she’s indestructible. That’s the only one. Even Moira and Banshee are probably dead and Moira isn’t even a mutant – not that that makes it better, but just the wrong place, wrong time, and collateral damage. And so, so many people that they knew are all dead and that scene of them staring shocked at their televisions is just so poignant. I think not to tie it too much to current events, but I think in the past five, six years and even beyond that, we’ve all had those moments where we clearly know where we were when we were watching something unfold live on television that is so horrifying that we don’t know what to do, and it’s just shock. I think that was something that I really felt deeply when I was watching that episode is we’ve all been there recently, one way or another. And so I think that was something that just from an empathetic level, I was really, really sad in watching all of them react in real-time to knowing that the people that they loved and they sent there are probably not coming home.

Katie: That scene was almost just as hard as watching it actually happen. To your point, unfortunately, I think there have been too many times and when I say recent history, I mean even within the past 30 years that I think terrible things have been, unfortunately, but for the right reasons, covered on news and you have sat there and you’ve watched them, and I think there are quite a few for different generations those moments of like, where were you when this happened? Obviously, for Taylor and me, our generation, while Taylor was alive prior to 9/11, we were not fully functioning human beings like I was four months old. But I think, you know, we always talk about Covid like when that started, that was like a huge thing for our generation. And to them, like, this is that moment. To sit there and watch them have to witness that and to know they have people there and not know what’s going on. Also, somebody just attacked the mutants in a way that, are you how do you come back from that? And what do you do? What is the next correct step to take regardless of who did it, whether it was another mutant, whether it was Mister Sinister, whether it was somebody like Gyrich or the Friends of Humanity being involved, whatever, no matter who it was. How do you come back from that regardless? Non-mutants and mutants, what do you do next? 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, and this goes back to what we were saying at the beginning of the episode, it really comes full circle. Any progress that was made in the last few weeks or months, however long it’s been since Charles died, was just undone. And that’s it, the communities are now going to be farther apart than ever because there’re going to be people who are going to, unfortunately, celebrate that act of violence. There will, of course, be humans who will empathize, who are able to see mutants for the people that they are and feel that pain but there’s going to be people who are going to celebrate that and that it’s just going to drive the two camps even further apart. I think it’s going to enrage mutants, rightfully so, who may have thought that peace was possible and now will view Genosha as proof that they’ll never be accepted, and it’s going to be that much harder to truly ever get the groups to coexist. That’s another casualty of what happened in this episode. 

Katie: Yeah, this episode was just heartbreaking and I think I said it at the top of the podcast, but it starts off, in my opinion, like so well. I’m like, we’re getting the storyline I care the most about, this is so good, Remy looks great in his white suit, like, I am having a great time and then so quickly I’m no longer having a great time and it genuinely affected my afternoon. I had to sit there and be like, wow, you expect me to just work now after I just watched that over my lunch? What? How? You want me to focus on something and I’m out here like my favorite character just died. A bunch of mutants just got completely murdered. Nobody knows who did it. I don’t know what to do next. It was an insane episode, again, it was arguably one of the best episodes of TV I’ve ever seen, ever across any medium. And honestly, some of this feeling makes me think of what was it? Episode Four of The Falcon and Winter Soldier when the shield was defaced? Like that kind of feeling I’m feeling right now. 

Taylor: Yeah, it’s, going through the stages of grief, right? At first I was crying, Iwas sobbing, it was kind of gross. But now I just feel numb and empty so I’m like, on stage two and I don’t know what I’ll feel later. 

Katie: I think I’ve gone through all the stages during the podcast, actually. 

Taylor: Yeah, no, the anger did show for me as well but I do remember we didn’t have the podcast at the time The Falcon and Winter Soldier was airing, but I remember feeling this way on the phone with a friend of the pod, Davis, and we were all discussing it, and I remember feeling these feelings, or lack thereof, feelings where you just don’t like there’s so much you don’t even know how to express it.

Katie: You’re just sitting there and you’re like, oh my God, and that’s all you can feel. 

Taylor: Yeah, like, I can’t believe that they chose to take something that far and don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they did. I think it’s important the messages that are coming out about it or the messages that it sends really are important. The storylines that it’s going to further develop are important, but it definitely doesn’t make the heart feel any better.

Katie: Listen, if I don’t have Gambit back by the end of this season, I’m going to Marvel headquarters. I will show up. I don’t care if I don’t have any money or what. I will show up and be like, we have a problem and we need to fix it because I did not spend, what, 78 episodes of the OG X-Men, bingeing that crap for this show, to fall in love with this character, him him be a hyper fixation for me and know he’s going to get added to my wall, he’s now a character, I want to get Funko Pops of, like he is in my tier of like It characters for me, and you kill him? On top of all the rumors that you might kill Bucky in Thunderbolts after you let the Scarlet Witch drop a building on her head, you put Loki in his own personal like, I don’t know, prison by himself and you killed my girl Black Widow in Endgame. We’re not doing good. I don’t know if you’re  watching me personally, and you’re, like, anybody you care about is gone but we aren’t doing well over here, and I would like you to fix it immediately. Thank you very much. 

Taylor: Listeners, There’s another layer to Katelyn’s deep sadness, and that is that she just got a puppy and named him Gambit.

Katie: I did.

Taylor: And he’s only been with her for like four days and now not Gambit, the puppy by Gambit, the character is dead, so there’s just a lot going on. 

Katie: No, I literally told my boyfriend, he was like, oh, that’s really not a good sign. I was like, oh my God. I was like, first off, don’t say that but yeah, and then I had to like, take my puppy Gambit outside and I just was like, so sad and I was just like, please just listen to me and come outside and go to the bathroom like I’m crying already. I’m having a bad day. I don’t need you to fight me right now, okay? We just need to be on the same page. And so, yeah, there are definitely layers to this and while my Gambit doesn’t know his name yet, he will forever be named now, in remembrance of Gambit, the X-Man. 

Taylor: And on that note, on that very somber, sad note, I think we’re going to have to call it on Episode Five of X-Men ‘97. It wasn’t a fun one, but it was a very quality one and I hope everybody talks with whoever they need to talk to this week to get through it, because we’re not going to get resolution for a hot minute yet. So make sure that you are following our pod as we continue through the rest of X-Men ‘97 and the five episodes that remain. You can also check out our website where we have updates and all things related to the show in one place. 

Katie: I’m so sad saying this is going to sound so somber, but it’s not. Give us a follow on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Instagram and Threads as SistersAssembled. You can also subscribe to our YouTube, where we’re doing our Sisters Scoops which is also at Sisters Assembled. So go make sure you guys subscribe so you can do our weekly Marvel News rundowns with us. And as Taylor said, unfortunately, we do not get a resolution to this one next week. We go back to the Lifedeath storyline, but we are still looking forward to that. So stick with us for next week as we go back to Storm and Forge and the journey they are on. We are excited just as much for that. Hopefully, we will not be quite as sad by the end of that episode, but we will see. Either way, keep up with Marvel and keep up with us as Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.