Transcript

Taylor: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Let’s Talk: Marvel Fan Theories podcast. I’m Taylor.

Katie: And I’m Katie and we’re two sisters and borderline-obsessed Marvel fans who have been following the Marvel Cinematic Universe closely for years. And now we want to share our MCU discussions with you.

Taylor: We chat about our own predictions and theories, plus some of our favorites from online and our reactions to all the Marvel content that’s considered MCU canon, including the Disney Plus shows and the movies, as well as the Marvel News you need to know. 

Taylor: All right, everyone, so exciting. It is the opening weekend of Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, Marvel’s summer blockbuster release. And of course, before we dive into any of our reactions to the episode, just a quick reminder that if you have not watched the movie, do not go any further on this episode. Please go watch it. Support Marvel. Go help them break all the records or get closer or whatever, then come back to listen to our episodes so that you’re not getting any spoilers because this episode is spoiler heavy. We’re talking about all of it. So with that out of the way, Katie, give me your reactions to the film.

Katie: This is one of the first Marvel films in a while that it ended and I was like, I need to walk out of the theater, walk back in and watch it again. And that happened for several reasons. One, because it was all a really well-written film like the plot was very – I really give a lot of credit to the plot. I think it was very well done, but because I felt like so much happened and I texted Taylor this last night after the movie, I saw the movie and okay, maybe this is a spoiler to my reaction a little bit. I was a little disappointed with the ending and the end credits scenes, and we’ll get to that, obviously. So sometimes when I’m like, that’s how I end the movie, I assume, like suddenly I’m like, it all stunk. That was the worst.

Taylor: Recency Bias. 

Katie:  It was the worst recency bias. It really wasn’t because it was so good. I remember sitting there through the movie being like, this is so good. Like I was laughing. I was close to tears. Like I have felt a lot of emotions. So like, I really wish I could just walk back into the theater and watch it again just to like, remember more from the rest of it so that I don’t have that like, not loving part of it at the very end. But I thought it was so good. I give it a solid 7/7.5 out of ten in my opinion. 

Taylor: Okay. I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but a little less on the negative part. So like, I too, and we’ll talk about this more depth, you know, towards the end of the episode, we have a whole section on the end credits scene, so we’ll get there, so I’m not going to spend too much time there, but I too didn’t love them. I don’t think it clouded my opinion of the film as much as it did for you. I honestly think it was fantastic. Like you said, I think it’s top five for me through the whole MCU. I, to your point, was laughing. I did cry like I belly sobbed a few times. Those scenes with the animals just like they hurt me deeply. I just there was a lot there also. And my best friend said this to the use of Florence and the Machine and the end scene. 

Katie: I was thinking of you immediately.

Taylor: Listeners, if you don’t know this, I’ve been listening to Florance and the Machine since I was at the tender age of 11 years old. So like almost 15 years now. I saw her live for the second time at Madison Square Garden in the fall. Cried there too, like I love her so much. So for him to have used her in a Marvel movie in the last scene of the Guardians as we know them now, I just lost it. I was just crying the whole time, but they were like happy, sad tears. And so that was just like, so beautiful. The use of music again, James Gunn, we’ve talked about this before. He’s one of the best at it in the whole MCU. I thought it was spot on and it’s, you know, we talked about to his comments that you know, the runtime is the runtime because it needed to be the runtime. And I had that in the back of my mind the whole time.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: And I agree. I don’t think that he wasted a minute. Everything that was in there needed to be in there for emotional beats or comic levity because there was some really dark stuff like, you know, my best friend looked at me at one point and was like, Oh my God, are we like watching a horror film? Like, just some of that was really, really heavy, especially for a Guardians film. And so I think he did a really good job of balancing the light and the dark and all of that. And I just thought it was to your point, the plot was tight, it was exceptionally well-written and it was top five. I mean, headline here for me, top five. 

Katie: Yeah, well, and that’s part of why I want to be able to watch it again. And I actually wouldn’t be against it because I know some of the theaters around us always do like $5 Tuesdays or whatever. And so if they’re still running that, that was obviously pre-COVID. So I don’t really know if they are.

Taylor: They are. But I heard a rumor it’s & $6.50. I don’t know if that’s in New York, though.

Katie:  Okay. But that’s also still cheaper than like-

Taylor: Oh it’s like a third of what I paid to go. 

Katie: Yeah, exactly. I wouldn’t be against going next Tuesday and watching it again just because to your point, even talking about the runtime, I also was thinking about that the whole time. And I won’t lie, there’s been a few Marvel movies recently that have had this longer runtime that I’m like sitting there and I’m like, Is this movie almost over? And not because I’m like trying to end it, but I’m like sitting there like, okay, like I’ve been sitting here ready an hour and a half. Like, what else is coming? Like, like just because I felt like there were moments and I think, what’s the most recent film that came out? Ant-Man? I think Ant-Man had those moments for me where I just was like, It’s good.

But like I could have done without half of this and we could have shortened the movie. So I didn’t feel that way with this movie at all. I felt like everything was needed. To your point, like you were saying everything was there. And so I can agree with James Gunn. He did a great job of putting a full story together and keeping you wanting to watch it.

You’re not sitting there ever feeling like I’m bored, I’m over it like I wasn’t. And everything happened in really good succession. So I will say, like, I really enjoyed that aspect a lot.

Katie: Yeah, totally. And one of the things that I think I was not surprised about in the film and actually watching it was the setup that Rocket was only really in the film in the present for a few minutes.

Katie: Yeah.

Talor: And it was set up mostly as flashbacks and obviously we knew we were going to get the flashbacks. We saw them in the trailers, but I was not expecting the format in which he did it when Rocket was hurt so quickly into the film.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: I thought he was going to die. I was like, Oh my God. Is all the rest of the footage of him in this film fake. I straight-up thought they fake this out in the trailers.

Katie: I had really mixed feelings about that. Yeah, I will say, because I mainly because I knew this was the last Guardians film of the OG team, and a part of me was a little sad because he wasn’t actually in most of it. I thought it was a really great way to tell his story, but I was a little upset just because I was like, Oh, I mean, like, I knew like it drove the plot that was the main point. I understood where we went from it. I got why they did it the way they did. I just kind of was like, Oh, well, like Rocket’s not really with his team like this is it. And he’s not really with the Guardians.

Taylor: Well, yeah. And then I think to your point, you know, then they do reunite and almost immediately break up. 

Katie: Well, exactly. 

Taylor: You know, he’s fine. They beat the High Evolutionary and then they all go their separate ways. And we’re going to talk about that more at the end as well. So we don’t need to spend time doing that now. But that did surprise me. I was not expecting him to kind of be like I mean, basically, he was a ragdoll for the majority of the film they were just all projecting. And that’s not against Rocket. I mean, he took a serious hit from Adam Warlock. That was the other thing, Adam Warlock.

Katie: Oh yeah.

Taylor: And it’s not a criticism. It’s just I was very surprised that, he was not in the film as much as I thought. They definitely upped his involvement in the trailers or turned that up a little bit more than it ended up playing out in the film, which, you know, that’s fine at the end of the day, I guess you had two villains. You had to focus on one. The High Evolutionary was completely irredeemable and absolutely awful.

Katie: And we also knew he was going to be the main one. Like we knew going into it that he was the big bad of this film.

Taylor: Exactly. I guess where my surprise lies, I should say, is how little Adam Warlock we actually had. He would just like pop in and be a nuisance every once in a while. And I actually thought he’d be, you know, more involved.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: I also was not expecting him to be like mentally a six-year-old, which was interesting.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s talk about this because, again, I was texting Taylor. I finished my film a little earlier than she did, but we were talking about it and this is in the cloud of me being like, I just watched the ending, so I’m a little upset with this film. Obviously, I’ve sat on it a little bit now. I’ve been able to be like, Yeah, we know the film itself was good. I just didn’t like the last like 10 minutes, including the end credits. But yeah, this was one of the things that I was like, okay, um, okay.

Taylor: Interesting choice. 

Katie: Yeah, I appreciate that they explained it. Like right off the bat, they were like, Well, we pulled him out of his thing too early, so he’s pretty much a child. I appreciated an explanation because I think if they wouldn’t have said that or waited too long to have, like mentioned it, I would have really hated his character just because I would have been like, what the heck?

Taylor: Yeah, well, it would have been because we talked so much about how powerful Adam Warlock is, how strong he is and his morals, and for him to come out and be a child, like obviously those aren’t developed yet. So I was surprised because I was thinking we were going to get I’m sure you were too like a full Adam warlock who had his principles, who had who he was fighting for, and like was very firm in that. But what I did like was you kind of saw a glimpse of that when he went to protect his mother. And I was like, Oh, okay, this is the moment he turns. He no longer cares about the High Evolutionary. And then, of course, you see them save him at the end where he fully you see him kind of take that evolution fully into a Guardian. But like that’s where you can see the hints of who he’s going to become. Like his first thought wasn’t, I have to get off this planet. His first thought was his mom, and now he’s an orphan, just like everyone else in the Guardians. So like, that worked out.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: But I definitely to your point, I was glad that they explained that early on because there have definitely been Marvel films where I feel like characters have been changed and it’s been unexplained and it’s been like critical to their characterization. I can’t think of any off the top of my head right now, but I know we’ve talked about it in the past. I mean, honestly, like Thor.

Katie: Actually Thor is a great example, I think, and not not in a bad way. But just like obviously we saw Thor was dealing with depression, but like, you know, we see him behead Thanos and everything and then his digression happens off-screen.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: So we see him fall apart, but we don’t like, you know. And so the next thing we know, Thor is just like, well, I hate calling him Fat Thor, but that’s what everyone calls him.

Taylor: He’s not himself. We’ll put it that way.

Katie: Yeah, Yeah. So I agree. And he’s not the only one. To your point, I think there are other examples. I don’t really know off the top of my head thinking about it, but I mean, if we want to just talk and this is down to writing, Natasha is a good example too. She’s like a different version every time we see her.

Taylor: Yeah, that’s true. But to your point again, like with Adam, it’s good to see that they like, recognize like, oh, people are going to be confused because this is not the Adam warlock they were expecting. This is like literally fetus Adam Warlock who’s going to grow up and be more and better and awesome but he’s not quite there yet.

Katie: Right.

Taylor: And it also, I mean, to be honest, explains why he wasn’t there for the Thanos battle. Obviously, we know he was still with the Sovereign, and that would have been a little wrinkle, but you can right around that. Now we know if he wasn’t ready five years, six years after Thanos, he sure as heck wasn’t ready six years ago, you know when Thanos actually came. So as much as we’re frustrated timeline-wise that I didn’t work out because that’s such an interesting and important part of his character in the comics, I think that that explanation played a double role in that it also explained like, yeah, he hardcore would not have, even in this form, would not have been ready to go against Thanos.

Katie: Yeah, and I mean, to your point, like we saw great strength in him. I mean, he bodied the Guardians at the very beginning.

Taylor: Oh my God, year.

Katie: He full-fledged like pretty much took them all out. But I also, I guess and this is something going through my head, I was like, this was a Black Widow moment where Adam was only in the film to create Adam’s storyline. And that’s kind of what happened with Black Widow, with Florence or Yelena, but she was really only put in the film to create her future storyline. And so a part of me was like if we plucked Adam out-

Taylor: It literally doesn’t change anything.

Katie: Yeah, other than the fact he hurts Rocket and then he saves Quill. So the beginning and the end. But if you take every other moment of this guy out, I was like, there is zero added context to him like he really did nothing else in my opinion but I am so excited for what he’s going to become. And I do think I mean like, how else would they have introduced him at this point? I don’t know. And it did pick up off an end-credit scene. So at least he wasn’t just like cold entered, like he just like we have some context. 

Taylor: Yeah. And speaking of that end credit scene, I’m really glad that he picked up on it because truthfully, like what other franchise? Maybe, maybe Captain Marvel just because she’s out there, would have realistically been able to bring him in. 

Katie: Exactly. 

Taylor: So it was maybe not how I expected him to come in, but I don’t think it was bad. I like that he was comic relief. I think he’s going to be a great character moving forward. And all in all, I’m just happy he’s here.

Katie:  Yeah, I agree. And that’s why I like when I was, you know, sitting and muddling in my sad feelings last night. Because like I said, that recency bias really screwed with me for a while. That was one of the things that kind of just kept coming to me where I was like, you know, did I really like Adam in this film? Like, I don’t know. And I guess it was hard because to your point, this is and this is a dangerous area of expectations. We were not expecting Will Poulter to be acting essentially like a six-year-old. I did not expect that on screen. So you know it is what that is. I’ve like learned to be like, that’s okay. I’ve grown past that feeling and I think he’s going to be really cool moving forward. I think we’re going to see a lot of cool things from him. He just was kind of there in this film. But that’s okay.

Taylor: Yeah. It’s just to your point, setting up bigger and better things for him to come, we now have more of just our little taste from the end credits scene. And now we’re going to get a full, mature Adam Warlock moving forward. Needed to happen. I’m honestly okay with it.

Katie:  Yeah, I am too.

Taylor: All right, now it’s time to get into probably the most important segment of the movie, which is really diving into Rocket and his background and all the things that we learned about him. Obviously, we knew he’d been tortured. That had not been hidden in any of the other films, hinted at in the first film, and now truly brought to light in all of its I was going to say glory, but really it’s gory in this film. It was horrifying, to be honest. It was really upsetting. I just the animals, the sweep baby animals with all of their like limbs cut off and just it was awful. It was just truly awful. And yeah, I don’t really even know what else to say.

Katie: Yeah, I really have to say, this is one the first and MoM was like borderline horror and I’m not really a horror girl, but this was one of the first films I actually was like not watching parts of because I was like, I like I feel ill to watch this.

Taylor: Yeah

Katie: Like, even just like the animals and that whole thing, like even when they were, like, transforming them into, like, those weird. I was like, I can’t watch this.

Taylor: The sounds of pain from the animals. That’s what got me. I was like, Oh, my God.

Katie: Well exactly. Like, I was like, I can’t physically sit here and watch this. There were a couple other points, like even when they ripped the High Evolutionary’s face off. And I was like, Oh, that’s gross. Thank you. I don’t need to see that. But especially like those torture moments of the of all these animals, I literally was like, I like I cannot watch this. It was very heartbreaking to see. And I’ll tell you, while this is part of the story, I’m skipping forward, I guess, a little bit when he went back to save all the animals like later and all those raccoons, I straight up looked at my boyfriend. I said, if a single one of those raccoons die, I’m walking out. I am not going to stay in this film because they were so cute. And I was like, if I watch any of them get harmed, I will not watch the rest of this film. And maybe I shouldn’t of because I didn’t like the ending. But I literally was like, No, absolutely not. Because I just remember even seeing tweets right before we went in and it was like the High Evolutionary is one of those villains that are so easy to hate.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: And I was like, okay, like, I get I understood from Rocket’s perspective, but like seeing some of that crap, like, I was like, What is wrong with you? Like, genuinely, what’s wrong with you? 

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the animal thing was just, like, so difficult. We’ve never really owned pets other than fish.

Katie: And we weren’t very good at that.

Taylor: No, we were not. A lot of poor fishies met their toilet grave. But, you know, we’re still like people who, like, have empathy and still enjoy animals. And I just was like, that sweet little bunny that was just so cute Floor I couldn’t handle it. Lylla was so sweet. And then just the rest of them and, when he talked about how they were not good enough for his world, and they were just steps on the evolution and how they truly believe that he was going to help them. And like all this stuff, and I just, I don’t even have words. I don’t I don’t even know how to articulate how sick it made me feel inside.

Katie: Well, and then, like the scene where Rocky was, like, helping them escape and it didn’t get me when Lylla was shot because I expected it. That’s the type of scene that, like, gets set up a lot in these types of movies, or just like action movies in general where they’re like, “We’re saved,” and then you pan to them and then they got shot and then they fall, and the person who shot them is behind them. Like, that’s a very common kind of theme. But I, I remember thinking it went through my head that when Rocket turns to shoot the guards or whatever they are when they come in, and I remember thinking, how did they miss Rocket? I was like, because like they shot first and then he shot them down after. And I was like, how weird. And then when they turn it or he turned around and they shot Floor and Teefs. When they had shot at both of them, I was like, oh my God. Like, I was like, what? There is so much wrong with these people mentally to be able to do what they did in general, but like to sit there and have no thought of shooting and killing these animals that they’ve already tortured. I mean, maybe there’s a part of it that’s like for the best. These poor animals have been tortured and plucked apart.

Taylor: I think you’re giving them way too much benefit of the doubt. 

Katie: No, I don’t mean I just mean like, maybe for at least the animals, there’s at least an aspect of like, you know, moving on and out of that terrible situation. No, I’m not, God, I’m not defending those guards. But like, I just knew Rocket’s story was bad. It was just like seeing it and being that bad because, like, I thought about the torture on him. I never thought about-

Taylor: The other animals.

Katie: Well, yeah, like the bigger storyline behind all of it.

Taylor: Well and to like, I just keep thinking about when he first comes into the cage and he talks about how much pain he’s in, it’s like, so upsetting.

Katie: Oh, we got some waterworks. And it is, it’s so bad. And like I said, when you sit there and you just staring at these little baby raccoons, I just was like, no, no. Like, I know where this is going and I refuse. And like obviously we see the High Evolutionary is the worst. He literally blows up Counter-Earth just because he’s like, “You’re right, it’s not perfect.” Like, what? You just killed all those people. I won’t lie that one shot, and I know I’m getting a little off from Rocket’s story, but like, not really, because it’s still almost really part of all of it. That one shot where it’s Gamora and she looks over at the family holding each other and then they just blow up.

Taylor: Oh my God.

Katie: I was like what is the rating of this film? Because I feel like this is like I don’t even know what I just walked into. But like, holy crap.

Taylor: 

I don’t think I’ve been that devastated since probably Infinity War and Endgame. 

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: Like I can’t remember feeling that level of just is this really happening and have we met someone this truly and unfixable and unrelatedly evil like Thanos like that. I have not felt that way since those films. And I even said to my best friend when the film started, it started with that really somber music and suddenly-

Katie: Oh, me too!

Taylor: I was back in 2018. I said to my best friend, I was like, I’m having flashbacks to Infinity War. Because immediately all I could think about. I was almost waiting for the Mayday, mayday from the starship, and I just was like, why am I having these flashbacks? And I think my body knew what I was in for before my brain did.

Katie: No, I had the same reaction. I literally looked over and I was like, the last time it was this sad was Infinity War when we all just started in silence.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: And then also when it was all the Guardians and it was just the Guardians. Oh, yeah, I was like, Oh, people aren’t walking out of this film. On the contrary, which we’ll get to. Everyone walked out of the film. But yeah, the beginning was very reminiscent of Infinity War. I definitely felt that as well.

Taylor: Yeah. So long story short, Rocket’s Story is terrible. I think one of the most moving scenes for me in that storyline. Obviously, it’s the overarching storyline of the film, but related specifically to that scene is when he’s actually dying on the table and he sees Lylla in that kind of between world and they have that conversation. Guys, I wear my mask still in the theater and I’m telling you right now, my mask was soaked through. I was crying so hard. But then she said something really interesting and she said, you’ve been the main character the whole time.

Katie: You know what I said when she said that? I went that was almost the fourth wall break right towards us.

Taylor: Yeah. James Gunn reads the tweets. He knows.

Katie: Yeah, I was like, that was calling out to all the fans being like, yep, this has been Rocket’s story this entire time. All of you of that have been saying it. You’re right, all of you that thought it wasn’t true and thoughts it was Peter, you’re wrong. This has always been about Rocket.

Taylor: Yeah. And I just thought that on top of like how moving that scene was, that one shook me because I was like, Oh my God, here’s the confirmation. This is the director telling us, to your point, directly, hey, this is it. No, no questions anymore. Lylla just told you. And then when she said, you know, you can come with us, but not now, I was like- 

Katie: I was like hh, thank God. 

Taylor: I mean, yes, but my heart was breaking because you could just see how badly he wanted to be with them. And it was just like so moving. And that whole scene got me, got me so good.

Katie: I was expecting him to, I thought, well, first what was really going through my head was please, no, because we said he wouldn’t die.

Taylor: Also same! If the one person who dies is one of the few people we said was going to live, I’m going to be annoyed. This is not the way to view that film, but it’s what was happening.

Katie: Yeah, I literally was like, we were so adamant that we didn’t think because it made it look like he was going to die. We purposely thought he wouldn’t and I was like, Please don’t give us that wrong, you know? And I also but I will say the closest other than the animals and that horrible like those horrible scenes, the closest I got to tears was in not that scene with Lylla which was very reminiscent of like Harry Potter and Dumbledore.

Taylor: That’s where it is! I could not figure out where I saw that scene. Like that kind of setup before. You’re totally right. That’s where it is because I was like going through my, like mental Marvel catalog and I was like, we’ve seen this whole world thing and all that, but like, we’ve never seen this. You’re right. Harry Potter. Harry Potter, 

Katie: Yeah. And that’s totally what I was thinking about. And then when she was saying about joining them and she did the cut and she was like, but not now. Thank thank God, just thank God. And then suddenly I was like, suck everything that could have come out back in. We’re good, we’re good and we’re fine. So I was happy he didn’t die. I have to say, there was such a moment of elation when he sat there and was like, I’m Rocket Raccoon. I was like, thank you. That was like Scarlet Witch, almost.

Taylor: Literally. I was just going to say that. I said that last night to my best friend. I was like, that is Wanda’s moment of finally being named the Scarlet Witch. Rocket is out here saying, I am a Rocket Raccoon baby. It took him three films to figure out what species he is, but he knows now and he’s going to own it.

Katie: And I love that even Lylla called him a raccoon and he was like, I’m not a raccoon. I was like, you are seeing your friend in an afterlife. And she’s telling you you’re raccoon and you’re still like, no, I’m not. What do you say? Dude, what do you think you are? Like, what do you think you are is my question.

Taylor: I know because he doesn’t like Badger. What does Gamora call him?

Katie: Trash Panda.

Taylor: Yeah. Trash Panda but Gamora is the one who calls him Badger right?

Katie: I think so.

Taylor: But there’s like obviously we all know there’s like a million different things he gets called throughout. So it’s funny because he like identifies with zero of them but like most vehemently hates the one thing he truly is until he’s like, oh wait, yea I’m a raccoon.

Katie: Well, and doesn’t Drax call him like rodent in the entire first movie. 

Taylor: I mean, technically. Isn’t a raccoon a rodent? He’s not off. 

Katie: I mean, yeah, but it’s not usually the nicest thing to call them. 

Taylor: It’s not kind. It’s just true.

Katie: Yeah, well, you know, Drax.

Taylor: Secretly speaks multiple languages, but wants no one to know because they didn’t ask.

Katie: Yeah, I was like, I loved him.

Taylor: He was amazing in this film.

Katie: I know this is slightly into a different topic, but I just have to talk about Drax briefly because Drax was the needed comic relief I think in most of this film. I think a lot of the other characters were dealing with very serious things throughout it. And even just the dumb like Peter would be like, that’s my best friend, “second best”. I was like oh my God stop. 

Taylor: That gag was amazing. 

Katie: It was so funny and he just kept going throughout the whole film and I just appreciated him so much because I was like, if we didn’t have Drax, this really would have been like, very dark. And so I just had to give a shout-out to him because he really pulled through doing the Drax-like thing he always does. I appreciated it.

Taylor: Yeah, it was good. And then I liked that at the end they kind of balanced it with his, like, true emotions toward Mantis and like, you know, you’re not Drax the Destroyer, your Drax, the dad. And like, that was really good.

Katie:  And I liked that full circle moment because I think Drax is one of the few characters that I’m not entirely sure has had a lot of character growth throughout just because, I mean, the type of being he plays is so literal and everything else. It’s kind of hard, I think, for him to have certain growth and so to be able to kind of start the trilogy. And even including Infinity War and Endgame and all those be able to start it with. He lost his family and he lost his daughter to Ronan and indirectly then Thanos and to now be able to finish it by being able to be pretty much an adoptive father to all these little girls and little boys that they found. I was like, yeah, see, that’s that growth and that storyline that I appreciate and I’m really glad they brought that full circle.

Taylor: Yeah. And for anybody who watched The Last of Us, I was like thinking about that because as you guys know, Joel loses his biological daughter at the very beginning of the show, and then throughout the show, it’s all about him learning to love his adopted daughter, Ellie.

Katie: Or Stranger Things, if anybody else needs another reference, same thing. Hopperand El.

Taylor: There is a lot of like, I don’t want to say reluctant dads, but like circular dad moments happening right now in pop culture. So that’s been pretty cool. Are you ready to move into our last segment? Because I know we’ve hinted at it a few times, so there are some serious thoughts here. 

Katie: I am.

Taylor: Okay. We’re going to start with end credit scene numero uno, which is, of course, the new Guardians our new roster doing their thing, being Guardians and the cool costumes. And just as a sneak preview guys, we’re going to do a whole episode on this new roster, some fun storylines we think that they might touch on. So we’re not going to spend too much time on this. But I genuinely enjoyed this end-credits scene. I thought it set up a new franchise with characters that we already like, and are going to learn more about and I’m excited about that. I thought it was really exciting. Well done. I think it kind of tied into both of our theories, which was that we would see Adam Warlock either as a new Guardian or, you know, as some sort of space force is the wrong word, but like tied into Captain Marvel. So that I think we were kind of expecting. I’m not disappointed by it. I was into it. Let’s talk about the second one. 

Katie: Yeah. 

Taylor: Because that’s I think where the majority of the conversation is. And I know you and I were thinking some similar things last night, so I’ll let you kick-off, and then I’ll add in. 

Katie: Yeah and I really quick to just add on the first one. I totally agree with everything Taylor said. I appreciated that one, that one was not the problem for me and it made sense. I’m going to be blunt. I appreciated that it did what we usually think that the first end credit will do, and that continues from this film and set something up for something future. I was cool with that. I hated the second one, and there are a couple reasons for why, like I’m all for the like, funny or like they don’t necessarily set something up ones if they’re done well. I was not really enthralled by watching Peter eat cereal with his grandfather. Really didn’t add anything to like, I was like, this isn’t even funny. I’m just like sitting here like, okay.

Taylor: The one thing, did you catch the one thing on the newspaper?

Katie: I did, Yeah, about Kevin Bacon. That was good. That was a good callback. Oh, actually and then I have a complaint I need to add, but. But, yeah, I just was like, this is the second end credit ot of MoM all over again. guys. And just when I was like, okay it got worse because then they confirmed Star-Lord was coming back and I was like, what the heck?

Taylor: And here’s the thing. Here’s my thing with that. Look, we all know how Katie and I feel about Star-Lord. He actually references the fact that he killed half the universe in the film and he does it so blasely that I was like, but you killed Peter Parker, you piece of human scum. 

Katie: Yeah. My Buck Buck went down and I will never forgive him for that.

Taylor: There are some things that are just, like, unforgivable when it comes to Peter Quill. Yeah, but out of all of the characters that are still alive, he was the only one confirmed to come back. Now, I don’t think that that is exclusive to him coming back. I think we’re going to see the other guardians. It’ll be interesting when it’s not James Gunn, but like whatever, we’re going to see it. But out of all of that, they confirmed him and I texted Katie after and I said, you know what this means, right? He is plum for an Avengers roster because now he’s an Earth based hero and there’s not a ton of people he still knows there. But like he probably had some off screen interactions with some of them because there are still characters that are around from the Infinity War and Endgame days.

Katie: He knows Strange.

Taylor: Ant-Man, Mackie even though he’s got a different mantle, he was there, you know. So I think we’re going to see him as an Avenger. I don’t know how I feel about the fact that the man who killed half the universe is being promoted to Avenger potentially.

Katie: So I’m going to interject and I’m going to say something first and I’m going to say something that might be controversial, but I think Star-Lord should have died 

Taylor: Oh 100%. 

Katie: I don’t think it’s controversial in this room. I think it might be a controversial statement overall. 

Taylor: Oh. I was like you know we’re on the same page here. 

Katie: No, no, no. I didn’t question where you were at. I’m just saying I think the statement itself going out into the world, may be a little controversial. I think he should have died for a couple of reasons. For one, he from the fan perspective, he started everything with the Guardians. Even if it now were confirmed, it was Rocket’s story. I think Peter was the one a lot of people argued it was his. And I mean, even looking at it I mean, you could argue that especially with Guardians two with his dad and that being like the big major plot, like I think there was a lot of potential there to argue that. So I think it would have been very fitting. I also think the amount of times he went and risked his life for like one of the music players throughout the films. I think dying in the process of getting the one that Rocket was using would be very like would be a very good way to be like, I saved this for my best friend and I saved it and gave my life up for it. So it just felt right. I also just felt like him dying, like obviously if you listen to our predictions, we thought like five of them were going to die. No one died, which I don’t know, that’s why I didn’t like the ending. We can talk about that briefly, but like, I just didn’t like the ending at all. And so him not dying and no one dying, I was like, okay.

Taylor: I also in that scene where he’s out in space, I was like, oh my. I literally said I was like, Oh my God, they actually did it. Like, they actually are going to kill him. And I was a little sad because yes, I advocated for it, but-

Katie: I felt nothing. 

Taylor: I think at the time I was like, Oh my God, like just the shock of them actually going out and killing Peter Quill. But now, you know, upon reflection and even a little bit at the time, I was thinking about how it was how Yondu died. And there was a part of me that was like, you know, Yondu would been really sad that he died for this kid, only for him to die the exact same way a few years later. But also it was fitting for him to make a sacrifice like his father did. So, like, that would have been a really nice way for him to go out, because then he would have been reunited with his father and also having died the same way, making a sacrifice not quite as meaningful a sacrifice as saving another life, saving the music player. But still it would have meant something to Rocket, so it would have been the perfect way to go out for him and it is kind of a missed opportunity in my mind too, that they did not choose to go in that direction.

Katie: And honestly, like logistically he should be dead. And I said that last night. I was like, he was out in space long enough and with his face that blew up and everything, I was like, no, he should be dead. Like, he actually should not have lived. Like if we talk about how you would die in space, like he would have been dead. So I was like, okay, cool. And that’s why I like mixing into this conversation and it’s a good way to mix in is my biggest complaint is what was the point of telling us that Mantis and Peter were siblings when it held no emotional value for us at all? 

Taylor: That’s true.

Katie: Because this entire film, I was like they had a few throwaway comments, but I was like, I feel nothing towards their relationship. Like that was like such unneeded information. And then they all just go their own ways. Like Mantis goes off, Peter goes back to Earth. I was like, wow, what was the point of adding that?

Taylor: Yeah, I agree. I think the one thing it did add was it probably sounded and felt a little different coming from his sister that he should go back to his biological grandfather. Right? Because that’s not her biological family. They’re related, obviously, through the father side and this is his mother’s side. So I think it does hold a little bit of weight because that’s someone who understands how completely disastrous the one side of the family is. And she’s saying to him, you know, the kind of unspoken undertone there as well. I don’t have the maternal side of my family anymore. You still have people who love you on that side. I would go to that family, go see if that family still exists. And I think that’s kind of where that gave a little bit more weight because she was able to come at it from someone who openly now has experienced something similar to him, has more empathy potentially for his experience, because of that time in her life. So I think that’s kind of for me, it’s kind of a driving impetus to get him back to Earth, where she really played the sister card, if you will.

Katie: Yeah, and I guess I couldn’t disagree fully with that. I guess my other perspective of is like that was almost that unsaid sister card. Versus I sit there and I’m like, if I had no knowledge that they were siblings, that wouldn’t have affected that scene to me at all. 

Taylor: That’s fair. 

Katie: Like, that would not have changed how that scene played out in my brain. That would not have changed any of it. Like I didn’t need to have that knowledge. And I just that’s why that was almost another compounding reason I felt like Peter should have died because I thought, you know, when you create that connection and we know Marvel hates siblings. I just naturally would have been like, it’s going to make sense that one of them would die in this film. And I think he would have been a very fitting person to have done it. Especially because to, like a lot of this film was for him to go through and get past Gamora and, you know, get over that as much as he could. And I think that bringing that final moment of peace for him to finally be able to just move past her and kind of be like, okay, I’m done and I’m done grieving this and trying to save something that never technically existed with you. Like, I think it would have been a good just end point for him. But then again, like I said, this goes all the way back to the end of the film where I was like, okay, so no one died, and then they’re all just like, Sayonara.

Katie: Well, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about where everybody ends up and how we feel about it. I know Drax, I feel good about that. I think that is the perfect ending.

Katie: But I’m confused because I’m not saying he’s in the Guardians anymore, but his character is still very much on the board and Dave Bautista was very adamant about saying he was done.

Taylor: Yeah, but here’s my thing. He’s there living, being a dad. Like, are they going to make a movie about Drax being a dad? Like, no, they’re just not.

Katie: No, but I do think I just I was kind of like, okay, okay, maybe this is the problem. I’m not used to Marvel and these types of movies having good, happy endings. 

Taylor: Well. Okay, okay, look, we said Kraglin was getting the only happy ending. Everybody really got one. Think about Gamora. You know, she got the family and the father figure that she never had in Stallone’s character, whose name escapes me. I didn’t understand why she was with the Ravagers, I couldn’t get it. And then when he came out and he welcomed her home as his daughter, who truly loves her and doesn’t make her fight for her body parts like that was what I figured out. She had a family who loved her, but not in their own way like Nebula did. But because we all know that was not exactly the most appropriate show of love in that family. But like, she had a family and she had a father who loved her for who she was and I think that was her happy ending. We thought she was going to die, but she got a happy ending. Surprise. Same thing with Drax. We thought he was going to die. He got a happy ending. Nebula, I thought she was going to live. I like the idea of her leading a town and being able to, like she said in the movie, like give the kids the life and the childhood that she never had. I think that’s important for her development and working through her issues. So I think that was really nice and I actually really liked that.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, I just am more thinking I’m not used to, especially when it didn’t seem like people were walking out of this film. It was very much implied even from James Gunn and a lot of the actors and actresses that this was going to be a rough film to watch as far as the characters. And it was rough, but like they and I don’t think I’m the only one on the Internet that kind of felt like it was implied we were losing people. I mean, there were people from the first trailer who were like, Rocket is gone. So I think I didn’t expect that. And then they go through this whole harrowing thing and then they break up. And that just felt really weird to me. It felt very unnatural to me because they were like, guess we’ll all go- I mean, Gamora, that made sense I did not really expect her to stay. And I still don’t understand her existence, and I’m not even going to think about it anymore. 

Taylor: Here’s my thing. She’s off the board in terms of like being a major character. Zoe Saldana has said she’s done too. So I’m like, that’s fine. You know, it’s just one of those things that unfortunately, we just have to let it go. It is going to bother me until the end of my days, but I just refuse to spend any more brainpower on it. I just can’t do it.

Katie: No. Same. So that’s why like with her, I was like okay, whatever. But like with Mantis leaving to do her own thing and Peter going back to Earth, if Peter had to live going back to Earth, I was like, okay, yeah, I can appreciate the end of that. But I also was like, then if you’re going to send him back to Earth and now this brings this conversation full circle. If you got to send him back to Earth, let him just live. So when they were like, Star-Lord will return, I was like, oh, come on. Like, really let him just like, what was, I mean, even in Infinity War, you could tell like he was making some dumb comment towards Iron Man. And that’s when- and Tony was like, wait, you’re from Earth? And he was like ‘of course I’m from Earth’ and they like he had some dumb comment because he was eight years old when he left Earth. Like he does not know Earth. That would have been a good end credit scene, watching him like not understand things. It’s been years there are a lot of things you know he does not understand. I mean, look at him trying to drive.

Taylor: Oh, my God, that’s so funny.

Katie: That would have been a really good scene for me.

Taylor: Really quick and then we’ll get back into the end thing. Marvel’s first F bomb. 

Katie: Yeah, I thought I’d be more shocked. I really wasn’t.

Taylor: Well I knew it was coming.

Katie: Well, that too. That was probably why.

Taylor: You know, if you saw any of the teasers. It was kind of imply that it would be that scene. I thought it was hilarious. Also, the fact that it was Chris Pratt that dropped it just like made a lot of sense and I was like, yup.

Katie: It needed to be. But yeah, no, I don’t know. I think that could have been a good end credit scene. Just watching him struggle with like even an iPhone, like he’s used to all this space tech and now he’s sitting here with like an iPhone. I would love to have seen something like that. And then no, Star-Lord would return. I would have liked that Guardians will return, Guardians of the Galaxy will return because they are returning. That was an implied thing. Obviously, we have a team and that would have been my my ideal ending personally if if the end credits scene had to be what it was, make it funny, make it him not understanding Earth like and don’t bring him back. Let him just retire out on Earth with his grandpa.

Taylor: Yeah, no, I like that. I think it would have been better to just let him kind of have his happy ending because now you know, he’s not. Not necessarily that he’s not going to be happy, but that he’s not done. We’re not done with his story. So you can’t say definitively what it’s going to be. So, yeah, I agree. I was not thrilled that he was going to be back. I do want to quickly spend a little bit more time on Mantis, though, because she’s going off on her own. She’s got her big animal friends.

Katie: She’s something. 

Taylor: She is so powerful and she doesn’t even fully grasp it yet. And I am excited because I think we’re going to get Mantis back. I don’t think that’s an accident. I don’t think this is her happy ending. I think there’s a lot to talk about with her still. And I’m excited because I’m wondering, like, are we going to get some Celestial Madonna storyline further down the road or she’s like, involved in other stuff too. And I’m like totally blanking on it because that’s like the big one that I’m thinking about right now.

Katie: Or even just with Kang, because Kang is the running storyline right now. 

Taylor: Yeah. And like that whole Celestial Madonna thing is a King story line.

Katie: Exactly. 

Taylor: She has some real story power, I guess, outside of even the Guardians. So I’m excited for her. I love her. I think she’s going to be awesome. And I was kind of happy to see her branch out and do her own thing. And even, you know, I loved when she was saying she was going to go and Drax was like, ‘I’ll come’ and she was like, ‘no, no, no, that defeats the purpose’, but you need someone to protect you. And she looks just like, no, I don’t. And I was like, that’s right, you don’t because you saw what you can do and you still don’t fully grasp, I think all that you can do. But she’s starting to get to a place where she’s like, I don’t actually need someone to protect me. Like, I got this and I’ll be fine. But I also love that it showed their relationship and like, even though it started as this, like, weird thing where he just was insulting her constantly and like still does and like, still tricks her into stuff. Like that whole scene with the motorbike where she was like, ‘we’re just driving back to the ship, right?’ And he’s like giggling to himself.

Katie: I know. She’s like, ‘the ship that’s right there?’

Taylor: And then when you see her walk around to get on the bike, you see him just kind of smiling like. I love they’re like pairing. And so it was nice to see, though, the emotion behind it. Like when he’s crying, when she, like, turns off. I was like, so there is love there and you know that. But for them to have that kind of sendoff to one another, it really showed that. So even though I’m sad that we’re not going to get to see those two in action together anymore, I am excited for future Mantis storylines because she’s awesome and I think she has a lot of potential to be in some really interesting stuff.

Katie: I agree, and I think that’s like that’s looking on the upside of keeping some of these characters on the board is some of them have a lot of they all have a lot more storylines outside of just what we’ve seen in the MCU. So I’m not that’s only thing I think that’s the consultation I’m giving myself is I’m like, it’s okay because there’s more to come with a lot of them. And I think it will be really interesting to see them. The last thing I want to talk about briefly, because you talked about branching was my guy Groot cause oh my God, first off, I just have to talk about it briefly because I love I’ve always looked great Groot. Groot is my fave. I’m like surrounded by like several Groots right now because I have little like dudes and dolls or whatever they are like. 

Taylor: And a planter.

Katie: And a planter, although that, that is now downstairs. My little Groot buddy is downstairs, but he’s a little planter. I have such love for Groot. I love that he’s been different in every film. I think that’s like, that’s its own thing. But I just this was a first movie, and I think arguably you could say the first Guardians too. But I really feel like with this film where you sat there and you’re like, Groot is like, really helpful. And like, there were moments in the first Guardians don’t get me wrong, he was. But like, you can tell this Groot is a lot more intelligent, I think, than the first, like his father was. Because, I mean, even with the whole, like, I’m thinking distinctively in the first Guardians and Rockets like, ‘here are the steps to breaking out of prison. The last thing we need to get is this.’ And you see Groot in the background getting the thing that they shouldn’t get. Like I think of things like that where he was just like a big kind of dummy, but he was, he was strong and he had a lot of power to him. Now I think we have the power and we have the much more like I feel like he’s a lot smarter and a lot more aware of things. And so like, I was like, holy crap, like, look at Groot. Like, he is like, I don’t have words.

Taylor: When he does that thing with Peter where he pulls out all the guns and you see that circular shot that was in the trailers too. So good. And then the fact that he uses Groot as like a paraglider, I was like, where do they come up with?

Katie: But that’s what I mean. Like, this was so cool, and I just was like, wow, look, I’m watching this and I was like, this is awesome. Like Groot’s character development, ironically, because he’s a tree. Like, his character development is like insane in this film, like what he has become compared to who his father was in the first film. And like, even the cute little baby we saw in the second one and the teenager in Infinity War, like we got so many different versions of him, but like this version I was like, yes Groot yes. And then like then we see a really scary looking version of him at the very end in the end credit. And I was like, oh my God, what the heck? But like, I love it. 

Taylor: Let’s talk about the big Groot development. 

Katie: That kind of scared me. It gave me the snow monster from Frozen vibes as soon as he got up and I was like, oh my God. But also. Yes.

Taylor: No, no, no, no, no. I love you guys. Groot spoke. 

Katie: Oh, yes, yes. I thought you meant like swole Groot got more swole. 

Taylor: Oh, no.

Katie: That’s what I was referring to. 

Taylor: I was referring to his use of words that were not I am and Groot. 

Katie: No, that was the first time I heard Vin Diesel. 

Taylor: I was gonna say the same thing! The whole time, I always forget it’s him. When it’s like premieres and stuff and he shows up with little Groots in his jacket, like you go Vin. But like then when he said, I love you guys, I’m like, oh my God, I forgot it’s Dom like what.

Katie: I was like, Vin has appeared. I was almost uncomfortable because I was like, ew, I don’t like hearing Vin Diesel so clearly. 

Taylor: Well, it’s funny too, because he gets actual scripts like next to the I am Groots for what Groot is actually saying so he knows how to like inflect, at least that’s what I’ve heard. And so, like, it must have been so weird for him to have just been saying, I am Groot for like ten years. And then he finally gets to say, I love you guys. 

Katie: I know. Oh, he got one. He got we are Groot at one point.

Taylor: Oh, yes, yes. In the first film.

Katie: Yeah, but I appreciated that and I appreciated Groot. I thought it was a really good ending and I’m excited to see him again because Groot is so freaking awesome and this version of him is so cool. So I’m really like, I’m a big fan. I can’t wait to see him.

Taylor: Yeah, me too. All the Groot just all the time. All right. Well, that has been our initial reaction episode to Guardians of the Galaxy Volume three. We both may be seeing this again in the near future. So yay, you guys should definitely do that too. But we are not done talking about Guardians, I’ll let Katie talk to you guys in a little bit about some future episodes. If you want to stay up to date with them, please make sure you’re following on your podcast platform of choice. You can also check out our blog where we will have corresponding blog posts to all of our podcast episodes. Last but not least on the blog, you can find our support the show section on our home page, where if you want to help us make the show great and keep it going, you can purchase from the affiliate links on the site and we will get a portion of those proceeds.

Katie: Make sure you guys are also following us on Instagram at letstalk.MFT and Twitter at letstalkMFT. Everything you need to keep up with us is all right there so go give us a follow on one or both because why not? And to Taylor’s point, coming up, we are going to do a breakdown of the new Guardians roster, so that will be our next episode. Keep a good eye out for that because, I mean, I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t know who that little girl is. So I’m excited to learn and I’m also super excited to kind of just talk about some of the new dynamics that we might be facing in the next Guardians film, if that is how they appear to us next. So make sure you guys go support the film again if you want to. I almost said go watch it, but like you should have already by now, so make sure you guys are supporting the film. I hope you guys enjoyed it. We had a good time watching it and to Taylor’s this point we might go see it again, so you should too. As always, Marvel, just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.