Transcript

Taylor: Alright, listeners, we have an exciting show for you again today. We have a new movie coming out that is not, of course, in the main MCU, but is part of the larger, shall we call it, extended universe, which is of course, Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, Sony’s animated film focusing on Miles Morales. So as we do with everything MCU related, we will be kicking things off with a predictions episode and then following up to the film with our reactions afterward. Just a quick disclaimer as we dive into the themes and our predictions for this movie. We have not actually rewatched the first film in a few years. So if there are some things that seem a little funky or we should have known from the first film apologies, but that was just something that we did not get a chance to do before hopping on the mic to prep for this episode. But we’re hoping that you still hang around with us and get some good value out of some of the research that we did do and some of the predictions that we’re going to discuss today.

Katie: Yeah, it’s definitely been a little bit of time, I think almost five years to be exact, which is a little crazy to Taylor’s point, we just didn’t have a chance, unfortunately for either of us to get around to rewatching it. So we’re going to try our best to not say anything that we might have or should have known the answer to, and maybe we didn’t remember. But our other disclaimer is, quite frankly, we don’t know the plot of this film. We have done extensive research into different characters. We have watched the trailers, and we have watched breakdowns. We have both brought different pieces of information to the table to talk about here. But quite frankly, I don’t know what we’re going to see. It kind of looks like there are two plot sort of that we’re going to be battling throughout the film. There’s going to be and I don’t even feel comfortable calling them an A and B plot because I’m not quite sure which ones which. Also if you guys aren’t aware the finale of the Spider-Verse films is, I believe, coming out next year already, and I think that is Beyond the Spider-Verse is the last one. So that’s actually going to be coming pretty quickly on the heels of this one. And I’m not 100% sure, but we might be seeing almost a part one, part two kind of vibe here just with the different plots that we’re seeing. So we’ll get into those and we’ll get into the plots directly right here. So starting with the very first one is our main villain, also not main villain: Spot, the Spot, Spot Man, whatever you want to call him, but he’s like Spot. He seems fun. I think I’m really going to enjoy him.

Taylor: Yeah, I think just a little bit of footage that we saw of him in the trailer, just like I’m imagining or like, visually seeing in my mind’s eye, like where he’s talking to Miles and the bread is just like coming out of the spot on his stomach.

Katie: A very uncomfortable scene. 

Taylor: Yeah. I think to your point, calling him the main villain is kind of a misnomer. I think he’s kind of like the comic relief villain, like the red herring villain if you will. It looks like he’s going to be the villain, right, because he’s the only, quote-unquote, bad guy in the film. But it looks more like and we’ll get into this character in a little bit, but it looks more like Miles’s real antagonist is actually other Spider-Men, specifically Spider-Man 2099. So it’ll be interesting with Spot and how that kind of works out, whether he’s in the beginning and then, you know, Miles defeats him at the end after he’s kind of had this experience in the Spider-Verse or kind of where that character fits in but for ight now, I don’t really imagine him as much more than like comic relief.

Katie: I agree. I do think, though, he’s going to play a bigger spot. Sorry, that was on accident. I actually didn’t really mean to say it that way, but I do think he’s going to play a bigger spot in this film because of his powers specifically. And I guess I want to use the word powers a little loosely because he’s not like Wanda out here throwing magic and everything or Doctor Strange. It’s more of an ability, I suppose, but he clearly doesn’t have control of it. And so you could see that he has the ability to pretty much make these little portals in which he’s allowed to he himself, you know, send body parts through and or send objects or whatever through, and they open up into a different area. I think when you have a villain who doesn’t have a villain using in quotes and using very loosely, but when you have a villain who is not in control of an ability such as that, I think that can lead to a really big situation. Whether we see it in this film or maybe this is a character that eventually gets a hold of it after causing chaos and becomes a much more prominent villain. Maybe in the next film, which could be really interesting. But I do see him creating a lot of problems just because he can be sending people through these holes and these spots into who knows where. And he seems to have almost his own little universe in which he has these holes in which he can see where he goes. Just not well, clearly, but he can he has the options of all these holes. So it is going to be really interesting to see how he works because I do think he’s funny right now, but I see how he can create a lot of problems on accident, but also how when he masters these abilities, how he can become a really strong antagonist.

Taylor: Yeah, no, that’s a good point. Actually, his abilities remind me very much of the sling ring that Doctor Strange uses and the portals that he’s able to create. I feel like that is like it’s very reminiscent, but he clearly doesn’t need the jewelry in order to do it. I also would be curious to know if his abilities extend to beyond his universe. Like if he’s able to create one spot in his universe, like you were saying, like, especially with the plot of this film being multiversal, you know, if he’s able to start a spot on his side and then move another spot into another universe that is obviously going to have huge ramifications, almost like an America Chavez level or type of ability. So he does definitely have the potential. I just think knowing what we’ve seen, kind of the emphasis being in the trailers, he’s not going to be the focus of this movie. But I like your idea of kind of saving him to be a bigger threat as he controls those powers in the future.

Katie: Well, and I think that you kind of really hit the nail there because that’s the question. If he ends up learning, he also has the ability to enter or open these spots and allow them to go across different universes, and to your point, tying it to this type of film that it already is so deeply involved in this, I think that really opens the question of what more can he do and where else can he go, what can they expand on with him. So I think he has a lot of potential. And I mean, if you really think about it, he seems to really mainly be in the beginning parts of the trailers and then it looks like that B-plot kind of shifts in which we’ll get to in a moment. And that’s really what the main focus goes to. So I wouldn’t be shocked to see him more as that him actually being more of the B-plot throughout it. And then I really I’m going to put my money down to say he will be a bigger foe later on.

Taylor: Fair. I don’t know that I’m willing to go that far yet on him being a big foe, but I like the option being on the table.

Katie: That’s fair.

Taylor: Alright. Now we’ve hinted at it. We’ve talked a little bit about it, but let’s dive into what looks like it will be the main plot of the film. If we had to take a shot in the dark, which is Spider-Man 2099, being a real and his real antagonist, Miles, real antagonist in this film for as yet unknown reasons. So I think one of the things that stuck out to me when I was watching the trailer was, you know, Gwen clearly invites him into this group of Spider people. He’s so excited to be there. He meets Spider-Man 2099 and immediately this guy’s like, get him out of here. He’s not supposed to be here. He doesn’t belong. He’s not whatever. And it’s really unclear like why that is. But then there was another scene later on where Peter B Parker makes a comment to Gwen. Something like this wasn’t how it was supposed to go. And Miles catches on to that and he’s like, wait like this was planned the whole time. So it’s interesting because to me it hints that there was kind of more going on with his relationship with Peter B Parker and Gwen from the first film, then I think met the eye. So it raises a lot of questions for me for sure.

Katie: Yeah, I think and I believe this Spider-Man’s name is Miguel, correct? 

Taylor: Yes. 

Katie: I think to your point, yes, he is going to be what comes across as the main antagonist of this film by the end. But I don’t I think the thing that’s going to be interesting about him is I don’t think he’s doing it with ill intent. I actually think at the end of the day, it looks like so we see him at one point, he looks like he’s looking at a bunch of TV screens and it actually kind of looks like he’s almost I actually connected him a lot to the TVA. Like he’s almost in his own way trying to control what each universe’s Spider-Man is doing and the story they’re telling. And so I think it’s kind of interesting because I think that’s the problem. I think he has- because if you think about it, the whole thing I mean, Miles even says it at one point, like this is my story or something. He says something along those lines and he’s like, you know, this is my life to live and my story to tell. And so I think the whole idea is, you know, Miguel is out here making sure and like so meticulously almost keeping each Spider-Man on a certain track. And Miles sticks out like a sore thumb for who knows what reason exactly. It does seem like there’s also a line of like a small plot line of loss in this film and the idea of all the Spider-Man, obviously- well, I don’t want to say all but the majority are connected with the idea of losing a figure in their life that means a lot to them. Like, you know, Uncle Ben, I don’t know if I had to say it, but we all know it. And, you know, that’s one of the main ones. And a lot of them still have that storyline. So it could very much also tie in to that grief storyline. I mean, we know Miles is connected very much to his parents and very supported by his parents. A lot of you know, Peter’s the majority of the stories is they’re already don’t have their parents. So it’s like I feel like maybe that could be a bit of a difference. But there’s definitely that grief storyline and that loss storyline that I think might just play into this a little bit.

Taylor: Yeah, that’s interesting. I think too, one of the things that I was reading when I was reading a little bit about Miles was that he does lose his mom in the comics at one point and she later comes back and that’s undone because this is comics. But, you know, he does get that later. So in terms of like the parental loss, as of right now, he does have both of his parents. They’re unaware of his alter ego as Spider-Man, but they are supportive of him as Miles. And I think you’re right. I think a lot of the Spider-Men, obviously they have Aunt May and to a certain point, Uncle Ben. But after that, like they really are missing that familial connection because they grow up as orphans, even though MAy and Ben step in, in that role. Biologically, they’re not the Spider-Man or women or whoever’s parents.

Katie: Exactly. So I think that’s a good starting point for differences of where Miles is versus what I assume a lot of the different Spider-Men are, and obviously, not all of them are Peter Parker’s either, but there probably are just as many that are. So I think, you know, that could be a big thing. But moving into Miguel and who he is, I mean, he looks like a formidable foe.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: I definitely think he I mean, he gives me icky vibes. I don’t like his vibe. I just from the get-go. And if you think about it, every single Spider person that is invited into this society has those bracelets that they’re given. And there’s a part of me that sees that again as the aspect of control and makes me wonder if that is I mean, I guess, for lack of better words, almost a control bracelet, a way to control these different Spider-Men across their different universes. And Miles isn’t allowed to have one, which I think is kind of interesting. But I’m also intrigued because we’ve talked a lot about different and obviously this isn’st completely MCU related, though we will get to the MCU relation, but we’ve talked a lot about different types of jewelry lately with like different meanings. And I in no way do I think this is a cosmic sort of thing, but I am intrigued to kind of understand what these bracelets are doing and why they’re given to the society of Spider-Men and what it means, like what they all do together.

Taylor: Yeah, I am also very intrigued by that as well. It was interesting when you were pointing out Miguel’s insistence on control. He actually reminds me a lot of Thanos in the sense that, like Thanos is like, I see a problem and I’m going to go fix it and I’m going to control everything. And I’m going to control my kids, my adopted kids who like, really didn’t even want to be my kids anyway. But like, I see that in him. I see also like a very much a Doctor Strange in him. Always I must do this my own way on my own terms. And then it gets him into a lot of trouble. And that’s why I think you know, Doctor Strange and we’ve talked about this kind of bridges the gap or like lives in that gray area sometimes where he’s almost villainous. And you’ve seen that across the Multiverse. Some versions of Stephen are good and some versions of Stephen are bad. And so, I very much see Stephen Strange in Miguel in the sense that he thinks he’s doing the right thing, but not always do the ends justify the means. And when you lose sight of that, you kind of dip into that gray area and then potentially beyond it into pure villainy, which I think is what we might actually see. You know, at one point in the trailer, one even says, like, I thought we were the good guys. And he very clearly says we are. So it’s obvious that he thinks he’s doing the right thing, but again, if you’re going about that in the wrong way and if you’re potentially trying to kill another Spider person because they don’t fit into your grand master plan, are you the good guy? Because I’m not quite so sure. 

Katie: Right, and honestly, I think it’ll be interesting because and you kind of already started to get into this area, so I’m just going to take the bridge and go with it. Miguel is the one who talks about Earth 199999. Did I have enough nines? Did I miss one?

Taylor: 

I honestly don’t know. There are so many numbers. He says it so fast, but I know what you mean. Yeah.

Katie: I don’t know if there are 5 nines or 6 nines, but he is the one who talks about that. And if you are understanding my reference, he’s actually referring to, I guess, Earth 616, which is our MCU timeline. And you know, he is because he literally says, you know, Doctor Strange and the kid from Earth 199999. And so since you already brought up Doctor Strange since we’re talking about Miguel and his control issues, I think this is a great clashing point of how intriguing. One that we were already referred to multiple times, as Earth 616. And now we are being referred to as a different Earth number because I’m not going to keep saying it, but we are being given a different number by Miguel, which I don’t know. There’s a part of me that trusts him a little bit more because the Spider-people and their Spider-Verse seem to have a lot more going on and a lot more knowledge than some of the other places that I feel like we’ve seen 616 being referred to. But also, you know, we did have No Way Home take place. And not only was it Peter Parker from 616 that was the problem. We had three different Spider-Men. And on top of this, if you guys are not aware there was a trailer release in another country that had all three of the live-action Spider-Men suits, they zoomed up on their spider in the middle of their like on their chests and on their backs. So there was very clear reference by literally showing it to us. I don’t even think that’s a reference. At that point it was just like, here you go. So I do think this is kind of opening a very interesting web, if you will, because I mean, now what? Now what, you know is the question, because I’m intrigued to see how Miguel and his control problems and everything else meets the MCU, because it’s now been confirmed that this is all getting marinated and mashed together into one big mixing bowl.

Taylor: Yeah, it’s interesting and it’s complicated because of the rights issues. And I know this is something that we’ve joked about a lot, but it’s also becoming a genuine problem because here’s the thing. You know, Miguel can say ten X amount of nines however all he wants. That’s Sony’s interpretation of what Earth we are living in, not necessarily the MCU’s interpretation because Kevin and Co have been very clear it’s 616. And I know you know, Iman Vellani, who plays Kamala Khan, has come out and said she actually thinks it’s 199999 or however many nines there are. And she truly believes that it’s not 616. But I have a tough time believing Sony over the MCU proper. So I think that’s where I’m struggling on the first aspect. I also think, you know, if you go all the way back to Morbius from last year, the idea of Morbius and Vulture having some sort of knowledge of one another and relationship when they’re clearly not supposed to be in the same universe just based on things that we know. So Sony plays really fast and loose with the Multiverse idea and they have been. And for the Spider-Verse it works, right? Because it was especially for Into the Spider-Verse because it was so separate, right? There were no real references to anything that was happening in real-time in the MCU. So it was fine and it could live on its own and eventually marry in. Unfortunately, the way that they’ve chosen to marry in so far has been contradictory to what the MCU has said. So I am very curious to your point to see how in this film they’re able to make it work, because here’s the other thing. We’ve now had two references to Miles Morales in the MCU. Obviously, that was his uncle in Spider-Man: Homecoming, played by Donald Glover. So we know his uncle is here. That means there’s probably a Miles here already in live-action in 616. We also, of course, had the much less direct reference, but Jamie Foxx’s character saying, oh, I thought you’d be black when Andrew Garfield took off his mask. Obviously, in reference to potentially Miles in the future. Again, way less direct but if you knew what you’re looking for, it’s right there. And so, you know, we’ve had these hints at Miles and how is that going to relay? Is it going to be this Miles from Into the Spider-Verse? Is it going to be a different version of Miles? I don’t know. And that’s where it gets really, really complicated as you have two different studios playing very fast and loose with these Multiversal laws and rules.

Katie: Yeah, it’s definitely going to be a little bit of a struggle bus. I do think the thing that gives me a little bit of weird hope in a direction of I think these are going to mix together and we’re going to possibly see this live-action Miles or I should not say that this version of Miles become a live-action, Miles, just because the naming and you know, this is Homecoming and No Way Home and Far From Home all over again. But we’re Into, we’re Across and then we’re going to be Beyond. And I think so far what we’ve seen is the Spider-Verse itself is not live-action. Theoretically. So beyond to me means beyond what we’re currently in, which is more of a I don’t want to say it’s like cartoony because there are so many cool art forms that are being used to tell the different stories of the Spider-Men and, you know, even just the different universes that I don’t want to in any way just say it’s like a cartoon because it’s not like it’s beyond that. But, you know, going beyond that kind of like artistic and drawing base story and moving it to a big screen, I wonder if that is what beyond finally is. Because, you know, in the first film, Miles enters it for the first time. Okay Into I get it. Now he’s going to be, it looks like, all Across different parts of the Spider-Verse and into different universes and everything else, cool to the namesake. And Beyond to me, I mean, what goes beyond then entering the big screen and live action?

Taylor: Yeah, you’re right. I think that actually makes a lot of sense in terms of development of the character and movement into the MCU. And I do want to point out, you know, Miles is in Secret Wars. He is there. And I believe, if I’m remembering correctly, it is his earth 1610 that is the incursion earth with 616. So if that is the case, Secret Wars is the perfect chance for him to come in, because now you have 1610 mashing into 616. He’s already a player in Secret Wars. And so maybe you know I know Across the Spider-Verse I think was actually delayed. I think it was supposed to come out last year, if I remember correctly, it got pushed or it got pushed a few months. So they weren’t necessarily Across and Beyond, were not supposed to come out necessarily back to back the way they are now. But, you know, I think that there’s a sense that you can’t move Beyond because or at least you can’t push back Beyond, I guess, is a better way to say it because as you know, you’re looking at 2024 and then that next year, when is Secret Wars? It’s 2025, right?

Katie: I thought it was 2026.

Taylor: Oh, yeah, I think Kang Dynasty is 2025. So either way, you want to have Miles’ final adventure in the animated medium happen and you don’t want to push that back because then you’re setting him up to go ahead and be in live action in Secret Wars. So I think that’s kind of why they’re sticking to this timeline of we have to progress this character and develop him and develop his ability to move within the Multiverse so that when the time comes, we can bring him into 616 proper in a way that is in live action, to your point, going beyond what we’ve seen him in before.

Katie: And that’s almost exactly what I was going to say. I think the timing of Beyond the Spider-Verse is very, very meticulously done, and I don’t think I realized how closely these two were coming out on top of each other. And I remember when I was kind of preparing for this and I realized I was like, oh, that’s a little funky considering we had- and granted COVID and everything else has happened in between, but we had five years between the first film and the second. So to have such a big gap and then to have pretty much a year in between the next ones, I was like, oh, that’s a little strange. It’s a little weird. But as I continue doing my research, I kind of I was on that same path. I was like, you know if this is what they end up doing, even if it’s by the end of the film, this is how, you know, he plops out and here we go, here’s the live-action, Miles. Then, you know, I can follow that. And then that would be a great way to have him into the next, you know, big storylines, which, to your point if his Earth is the one that collides with 616. Perfect. There you go. We’ve got our live-action, Miles, now in our MCU timeline. But yeah, it does, it definitely these movies to me were working a lot more in tandem until that comment when they blatantly sat there and they said, we’re not even going to sugarcoat this. We’re not even going to make it like an Easter egg and maybe something you might catch, or might not. They blatantly were like, oh, yeah, that kid film 616 and Doctor Strange, yeah, what they did. And I was like, well, that to me is the gloves are coming off and we are getting prepared for something much bigger.

Taylor: Yeah, and I would have loved it if you would have actually said 616. The wrinkle is that you said 199999.

Katie: Oh yeah. That’s my bad. Yeah, I know.

Taylor: No, but you make a good point because if he had said the line that you just said, it would have been perfect, right? Everything would have lined up exactly the way that we would hope as we’re working towards Miles, coming into live-action, being fully in 616, at least temporarily, you know, and being a part of the larger MCU in a way that he really wasn’t connected to and Into the Spider-Verse Perfect. But then they had to go and make it 199999, why? Like, that’s what I mean, whenever it comes to this Sony stuff, it is like, almost like they want to dangle the idea of a connected universe at you. And then they do something that’s so completely contrary to what is actually happening or what is actually the rules of the Multiverse, that it just goes beyond anything that is reparable. I mean, that Vulture scene is irreparable in terms of the effect on the Multiverse and what that actually means and where Morbius fits in and all of that. And then not to take the focus off of Across the Spider-Verse, but then you also have the Madam Web movie that’s in development and filming. I think it’s actually done filming. So the other question then is how does that fit in to the larger universe? How does you know, we saw Venom come into our universe and then leave, but that means that, you know, where’s his Spider-Man? And I just have so many questions about Sony dipping their foot into the MCU and then also keeping the other foot very firmly on dry land. And it’s like you can’t have both. You have to either go all in and make it a connected universe or just say that you’re a completely different universe and leave ours alone. Like, just pick one. Don’t muddy the waters.

Katie: So I have two things to say to that. First, just a confirmation. Is it 1099999, or is it 19999?

Taylor: I thought it was 1099999.

Katie: I thought it was 199999. And I still can’t confirm how many nines there are, but I do. I’m not sure if it’s ten or what, but we’ve both been saying it differently and I want to make sure whichever one of us is not correct, we fix it for the rest of our time here and tell the listeners now that we’re sorry that we have been saying it wrong.

Taylor: Well, in our defense, we’ve never been good at names.

Katie: I mean, that’s fair. We have done this multiple times, so I’m trying to catch it now.

Taylor: It is, in fact, 199. I’m going to look at the number of nines I don’t have my glasses on, 199999. So one and five nines.

Katie: Okay. So I think I’ve been right. Well, first off I was right there. It’s not 1099999. But I do think I’ve been saying five nines so I’ll go with that. But the second thing I wanted to say was to your point with the whole Sony thing, and I think it’s hard regardless, wherever Sony plays around, just because I think the difficulties with Sony is it’s Sony and Sony will suck the Spider-Man franchise in anything it can out of it, just because it’s really all Sony’s got left at this point, which is why it’s spitting them out the way that it is. However, I will say I trust people like Kevin 5G, and I trust people like Kevin Feige. And I trust people like Kevin Feige would not be allowing Sony to, you know, stick their foot somewhere and be like, we’re going to just dip the toe, but we’re going to pull back. I trust that Kevin Feige will sit there and be like, well, if you want to do this, here’s the bigger plan to it. Here’s how it’s going to work out because I’m not going to have you muddle my storylines because you are playing around with a character that we’re going to fight over for the next 15 million years because that’s just the reality of it.

Taylor: Yeah. And while, I trust our good Kevin to the end of the Earth. There is a limit to his power when it comes to this character and Sony because, at the end of the day, he is owned by Sony. Tom Holland being in these films is essentially him being on loan. There is an agreement between Sony and Marvel that he is essentially on loan to be in these films is my understanding. Sony still owns the rights to this character, so Kevin can wave the red flag all he wants. But at the end of the day, Sony still owns the rights. So it’s kind of a power imbalance because even though Kevin is making the most popular franchise in the world right now, Sony can still do what they want with the characters that they outright own.

Katie: Right. But my only argument there is in this case, they don’t own the name Doctor Strange. 

Taylor: That is true. 

Katie: So there is some agreement in at least in this case there is some agreement in how this is going to go and the direction it might go because they would not be allowed to use Strange’s name. It’s one thing to have made a reference but the fact that they blatantly made and said his name. I trust that there’s a process here and I think there will be. I think, unfortunately, Sony’s live actions have not been the direction I think we’ve all wanted them to always be. But they did really, really well with the first Spider-Verse film. I think this one looks really great. And so I’m thinking maybe we’re batting a thousand here, but maybe we’re going for it. And this is going to be done very well. I think this movie looks great. It’s just as far as the MCU connection, that definitely gets a little stressful, gets a little bit gray and, you know, you don’t know what you’re going to get.

Taylor: Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, I haven’t been totally keeping up with a lot of the hype around Across the Spider-Verse because honestly, I mainly focus on the MCU. So these adjacent movies kind of sneak up on me sometimes. But in doing my research for this episode and prepping for and watching all the trailers, I was like, I am actually so excited for this film. It’s going to be so good. There are going to be a lot of things to talk about as it relates to the Multiverse, as it relates to the future of Miles Morales, and some of these other characters. I know there’s a scene in this film, Katie, that is going to get you good. You probably saw it in the trailer, the scene with Gwen over the body of her Spider-Man.

Katie:Oh my God, I don’t even want to talk about it. Yes, I did. And I was like, that is so triggering.

Taylor: I know. And so I am very ready to discuss that at length after watching the film. I just think it’s going to be great. I really enjoyed the first Into the Spider-Verse. I thought it was really good. So, you know, I have high hopes for this film just because, again, like track record on this particular portion of the franchise has been really strong. It is that MCU connection that I’m going to be sitting there with a pit in my stomach the whole time, or they’re going to say lines and I’m going to be overanalyzing it for the next 10 minutes of the film, trying to understand what it means and puzzle it all together. So I think if they’re able to execute that efficiently and productively, then this could end up being a slam dunk that really actually adds a lot of value to the MCU and the Multiversal storyline that we’re very firmly in. If it’s done wrong, we’re going to be having to do the same kind of gymnastics we were doing after the end of Morbius, where we’re just like, either we have to puzzle our way to figure out how this works or we have to sit here and go, well, let’s just pretend that never happened because I think that’s what everybody did with Morbius because it just doesn’t make sense.

Katie: Definitely. Yeah, it’s definitely going to be an interesting ride. But, you know, putting aside the connection to the MCU so we could stop hurting our brains a little bit, let’s move on to something I have a little bit curious about, and maybe it’s because I haven’t seen the first film recently, but I’m intrigued by this home base almost where all the Spider-Men are just collected, mainly because and maybe and this is my MCU brain, so I’m trying desperately to pluck that out for a little bit and put it on vacation for this film. But I’m intrigued because first off, I love how they’re all hanging out there. I’m like, so are you guys just like, not in your timelines? Like what? Like or in your universes like, what’s the vibe here? But also, where do you exist if the whole idea is, you know, we’re in the Spider-Verse and the Spider-Verse is really like the Multiverse and all the universes and they’re different Spider-Men and everything else. What is this chamber just for reference, this is like that white room that in the trailer you see, I shouldn’t say it’s a room. It looks massive, but in the trailer, you originally see it on Gwen and Miles it looks like they come almost out of an elevator or something. And as it zooms out, you see all these Spider-Men and it’s a bunch of white walls and everything, and Spider-Men are hanging around everywhere and I’m just kind of intrigued because I’m like, what? Where does this exist? What does this plane exist on? You know, like, it’s they’re clearly all out of their own universe at the moment. So where are we? Is this like TVA? Like, just not anywhere kind of vibe or what?

Taylor: Yeah, that’s a good question. I was thinking about that too. I think the TVA is a good point of reference in terms of it just being outside any and all universes. The other place that I was thinking of was the place where they keep the book. Oh my gosh. What is the book that Wong talks about in She-Hulk?

Katie: The book of Ashanti?

Taylor: Yes. Remember that where it’s like kind of like a place where all universes meet. It kind of reminds me of that, too. Like, again, it’s just kind of this like, theme of, like a place that exists outside of the universes. I don’t really know other than that, like, how else it would exist. I doubt it’s its own universe because these are people from other universes like they’re not native to that universe. They belong somewhere else and they’re just not there at the moment. So I think it’s just like kind of a space that like, like some of these others just exist outside of the Multiverse almost, or like, I guess within the Multiverse, like outside of its own proper universe. It could also be similar to where the Watcher hangs out, you know because he’s outside of all of the different universes. I mean, he’s able to see into the universes so it’s slightly different, but like kind of the same theme again. Just a place that exists outside of all the known universes. It’s super interesting. I don’t know how they carved it out, how they found it, or how they were able to exist outside of the known universes. I have a lot of questions, but I don’t have any concrete answers.

Katie: Yeah, that’s sort of what I was afraid of and not in the sense of you should have had the answers, but more of like I feel like there right now aren’t a lot of answers on that. And I was hoping to maybe be enlightened, but I also was like, I don’t know, because I also tried to look around and really couldn’t figure out much about the realm that they seemed to all be gathering in. But it will be intriguing to see how it’s used because like I said, it seems to be that meeting point for all the Spider-Men right now. But also, you know, Miles looks to be traveling throughout the different universes as he’s running from Miguel and subsequently the army of Spider-Men who are following Miguel’s orders, which I think is pretty intriguing to me.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: And that kind of goes back to our very first thing with Miguel and how he seems to have a lot of control issues to begin with and he really puts on that control and somehow seemed to become like the king spider. I’m not really sure how that is what happened here, but we also seem to be, you know, very seamlessly going through different universes, which I would have expected. But I’m I’m just unsure, you know, like I’m unsure what this realm holds. I know at one point I kind of it’s almost funny, but at the same time, like very much by the movie, we see the part where there’s like a Spider-Man therapy session going on, which is hilarious. But we also then see Miles and all the Army of Spider-Men crash through, and I’m like, okay, so was that also in this realm of just gathering like, is there are there a lot of rooms? Like what else is here? What is this? Because a lot of it we see our hallways, which to me make sense when you’re coming from different Multiverses or different universe across the Multiverse, like, yeah, I’m going to expect to see hallways and people popping in and out from different places. But like, what else is there? That’s what I’m also curious to see.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely like how they built it out. What are the capabilities of the space itself? What are the things that Spider people, all Spider-people need or at least they built out for the Spider people to be able to have access. So yeah, I’m definitely curious to just even about like the environment of the space. One other thing I did want to talk about just quickly changing the subject here. You know, I think there is obviously a lot of hints towards Miguel being the main antagonist against Miles, but I did want to look into, you know, what comic precedence is there for a Spider-people teaming up. Like is the idea of the Spider-Verse something that is completely foreign or is made by Sony because there are so many different Spider characters, or is it something that has comic book precedents? And there is a team of Spider-people in the comics. But what I thought was really interesting is they have a common enemy that they fight called the Inheritors, who are essentially like hunters who have a really intense obsession with spider-power people. So I’m almost wondering if there’s room for that being Miguel’s main antagonist, like if he has this control issue because he’s trying to keep the Spider-people safe from these Inheritors who are really looking to hurt them and that’s kind of like, again, like Doctor Strange, like everything he does is well-intentioned, but it’s the execution that leads him into the gray zone towards evil. So maybe with Miguel, it started out as let’s have a safe space where we don’t have to worry about the Inheritors finding us. We can all learn from each other, get stronger, get better keep ourselves safe, and have someone to call if you’re in trouble. And then it morphed into as over time he became more and more controlling and that’s where we get to where we are now, where for whatever reason, he decides to exclude Miles. And now Miles is a direct threat to this bubble of protection that he’s created around the Spider-people he accepts.

Katie: I think that’s possible. I think going all the way back control is going to be the big thing with him. And I would actually that would be a really interesting way to bring in that common enemy. And even if we don’t necessarily see it in this film, I would like that that would be a really interesting thing to kind of be like. That was the back end kind of controlling why he made the choices he made was this thought of this group. But they’re actually more the foe in the last film. I think that could be really cool too, because we clearly are growing, you know, like the very first one, we saw a smaller group of spider-enhanced individuals, and now we’re seeing like the lobby essentially for all of them who come and go. And so I think that could be a really cool way of being like, okay, now he’s going to be the full-blown team up against this group. I think that could be a really cool way to go. And just using Miguel kind of as that way of bringing it in and hinting at it into this storyline a little bit more could be cool. I also just think Miguel is just problematic. I just think the poor guy has a lot of problems like I do. I mean, I really see Peter B Parker and he has a child now with Mary Jane, which I hope his Mary Jane’s ten times better than Toby’s. And, you know, this is super cute, but you could see Miguel doesn’t seem super happy. And also at one point, if you look there, it does appear to be a picture of him with a child as well on all of his computer screens. So, you know, he might have just suffered different losses than others. And, you know, those losses might just be hitting home a little bit more for him that he’s trying to- oh, wait, here’s a thought. Maybe Miguel is genuinely just trying to make sure every Spider-Man is just as miserable.

Taylor: Oh, well, yeah, because Peter Parker is notoriously like as a comic book character, nothing goes right for this dude. I mean, like, if you look at his entire arc over the oh my God, he premiered in like the sixties and the comics, like, I should know this. There’s literally a New York public library anniversary card that is on all of their posters to the library that I frequently visit and I can’t remember what year it is. Either way, he just had a major milestone anniversary. He’s been in the pages of the comics for years, a very popular character. But one of the things that everybody knows about Peter besides Uncle Ben is just that this dude can catch a break. Uncle Ben. Gwen at certain times, Aunt May dies, a whole bunch of crap happens to Mary Jane like this dude, like struggles because he has so much horrible things happen. And so to your point, if that’s almost his goal, is to make sure that like, oh, my life turned out not the way I was hoping. I had all this pain. It would almost be funny, but really sad if like the trope of Peter Parker being so deeply unhappy because, well, not always unhappy, but like the trope of Peter Parker dealing with so much trauma is because this guy is manufacturing these narratives so that every Spider person, regardless of whether they’re Peter Parker, has a similarly negative experience. I actually love that. I mean, I hate it, but I love it.

Katie: And I think that could be well, you know, I talked about grief a little bit before. I think that could be a big reason why he doesn’t like Miles, because I think in comparison, Miles is almost just being Spider-Man to be Spider-Man. He has the abilities and he’s chillin. But you have to remember that I think about Tobey. I think Tobey is probably the easiest to think of because we really see, you know, his Ben go down. Like we really see that storyline play out in the long run. But I really- what?

Taylor: We really see his Ben go down.

Katie: Well, you know, we do like we see the whole we see it all on the street. We see all of that action. I mean, I’m not saying we don’t see Andrew’s but we see it in a different way. Peter’s we don’t see it all. And then we obviously see him lose Aunt May, but that’s a different direction. So I want to reference Toby’s just for the sake of how it was done. We see his growth and the difference, in how he becomes Spider-Man through the pain. I mean, even just going back to the fact that he thought he killed that guy who killed Uncle Ben, who actually didn’t end up even being the murderer, but he thought he killed him at the very beginning. After he went after him. And that was something for him that he had to battle with for a little bit as well. So I think it’s so pivotal, the grief in their storylines into making them a good hero. Look at Andrew’s with Gwen and how he said he struggled to have control of himself now that she’s gone. So I think it’s just so important and I think Miles, to a degree, hasn’t faced it quite as strongly as I think most, if not all of them have. And I wonder if that’s kind of that inner thing from Miguel to is like, I’m going to ruin your life enough so that you earn a spot because you don’t earn one right now.

Taylor: Yeah, I think that’s fair. If he’s bitter that someone is able to exist as a Spider person without the level of pain and trauma that some of these others have experienced in their time. Yeah, I mean, that bitterness I could see being a major motivating factor for him.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: Alright. And then the last thing I want to talk about, we’ve hinted at it with the whole Doctor Strange and that kid from 199999, there should be five of them, is whether or not we’re going to hear Tom Holland’s Peter Parker in this film. I feel like I’ve seen rumors, yes, I feel like I’ve seen rumors, no, I don’t know if we ever got a conclusive idea one way or the other, if it’s going to that explicitly connect to the MCU and the current Spider-Man.

Katie: So I’m going to say yes. I don’t know if it’ll be in the film or as more of like an after-like end credits sort of vibe. But I’m going to say yes, there are two reasons. One, Sony likes a good shock because the only thing they’ve got going for them is Spider-Man. So exhibit A Venom end credit scene when I literally screamed my lungs out because it was the best part of the movie. So they like a good shock factor. I wouldn’t be too thrown off by that. B, my second reason, I feel like the reference to Doctor Strange and all that happens relatively early on in the film, and I think that’s what a lot of people have been focusing on and talking about. I mean, heck, we just sat here and took 10 minutes just to talk about that. And so I think there’s a very good chance that while that’s the big hype moment, I think people are focused on that only worried about that will watch it play out on the screen and then think, okay, that’s all we’re getting from this film. And then boom, they drop the last one on us and they sit here and they’re like, here’s MCU Peter Parker’s voice or I don’t know, just enough of some sort of a hint just to be like, this will keep you going for a little bit and then that’s it.

Taylor: Yeah, I think you’re right. I think going to be in it. I just don’t know how they would not do it after having been in the end credits scene of No Way Home. You know, I think after explicitly tying one of their films to the MCU in the way that they did or I mean, you know, depending on how you look at it, even the Morbius thing with Vulture.

Katie: Yeah well, but even with Venom I mean, you had Tom Holland’s Peter Parker show up in the end credits scene and then you had it turn around on No Way Home and you had Venom in the end scene. So it’s happened twice now.

Taylor: When was Peter Parker in the end of Venom?

Katie: Um, when he licks the screen.

Taylor: Oh, yes, you’re right. You’re right.

Katie: That’s the one that had me screaming my absolute lungs out.

Taylor: Because you know what it is? I always- no that’s the end of No Way Home.

Katie: No, it’s not the end of No Way Home is when he’s at the bar and then he gets zapped back to his universe, and then he leaves a little piece of the symbiote.

Taylor: Do you know what it is? I always think they’re the same end credit. I just lump them together because they’re so tied that I’m like, oh, that’s just the same scene. I always forget. You’re right. So there have been three major connectors, and I just don’t know if you’ve been building towards this connection, for lack of a better word, how you leave Holland out of this one, especially if you’re building towards having Miles in live action in Secret Wars. I think you need this to bridge that gap, and I’m looking forward to it. I think if it’s done well, anything better than the Morbius example, I think it could be really, really exciting. Now, last segment, as we always do, end credit scenes. 

Katie: Well, I feel like I’ve really given at least one of them. I do think one of them might be a hint or some sort of nod towards our MCU Peter Parker. I think it’s a deserved end credit scene. I think it’s one of those that while I’m going to sit here and predict it and if it comes true, I’m still going to be shocked it’s happening. So I definitely would put that as one second one, though. I don’t know. I think, you know, I think actually that might be the second one and I think the first one might somehow help us tie this film into the next one we’re going to see unless, you know, Peter Parker’s our Peter Parker from the MCU is that moment. I don’t know. I feel like these films are a little hard to see what might be two end credits scenes from them. Just because the thing with that list, the MCU films, I sit there and I’m like, okay, well, what’s coming next? What can we, you know, have a scene towards versus for these, I’m not sure. So I definitely think one will be like in the first film, setting up the the second film. And then I do expect to see Tom Holland or some nod to him in the second one.

Taylor: Yeah, I am pretty much aligned with you, I think for sure, Tom Holland is one of my guesses. I think for my second guess and I don’t necessarily want to put these in order because I don’t know if they’re going to follow the Marvel formula. Marvel isn’t following their own formula right now. So, you know, that is all up in the air in terms of order. However, when it comes to that second one, I think it could go two ways. I think, you know, if you’re talking about this movie being part one of two, like you mentioned earlier, I think this could again set up the the part two, you know, something to bridge the gap between the two until next year when we get the final Beyond the Spider-Verse. The other thing I was thinking about, you know, I know we have the benefit of the slate when it comes to the MCU and we can kind of, you know, look down the pipeline and say, hey, like this is coming and this could relate here. So maybe we’re going to get an end credit that sets this up. The one thing that we do know for Sony that’s pretty far along in production, if not already in post, is Madam Web. And if Sony is trying to make all of their films relate to one another, then maybe we get some kind of crossover into a Madam Web where we’re setting that up so that we’re not completely coming into that portion of the universe cold. Because as of right now, Morbius is not super relating to Venom, if I remember correctly, or it’s very vague, it’s unclear. You know, the Spider-Verse has not related to Morbius in any way that we’ve seen. So these movies that they’re putting out have not connected. They have not joined into a joint universe yet. Maybe we start to do that with Madam Web. I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the character to say that we’re going to do that. But I think this could be a way for them to actually start building those bridges versus just saying like, here’s a random spider character, here’s a random spider character, and we’re going to tangentially relate them to the MCU, but they’re not going to relate to each other. Like, maybe that’s how we start to build those bridges. 

Katie: Yeah, that’s fair. I always forget, Madam Web, just because I just, you know.

Taylor: They filmed a few blocks from my apartment, so I feel a little attached to this one.

Katie: Yeah, I just. I don’t know. I don’t always tend to have high hopes for Sony works, especially when I don’t mind going into a niche compartment, but I just feel like, I don’t know, my faith is low, so I always forget that exists. But I do see your point and I follow it. I would second it. I think it’s it’s a good point.

Taylor: Cool. Well, that is a wrap on our Across the Spider-Verse predictions. I know as we’ve said we’re both very excited for this film. I think it’s going to be a really, really good one. So if you were excited to hear our reactions episode coming out opening weekend, you can give us a follow on your podcast platform of choice if you haven’t already. Please also make sure you check out our blog and website. We have all kinds of great information on there. You can learn more about us, learn more about the show, and support the show if you’d like to via the affiliate links on our home page. Definitely check out the site for all kinds of Marvel-related goodies.

Katie: Make sure you guys are also following us on Twitter at SisAssembledPod (formerly LetstalkMFT) and on Instagram at SistersAssembled (formerly Letstalk.MFT). We will be keeping everything and everything you need to know updated up on there. So all our new episodes, what’s coming up, blog posts, everything fun. You can get all that information right there. And as Taylor said, we will be doing our reactions up to before then, you actually can catch another episode which will be celebrating our second birthday. We will be doing an anniversary episode talking all about that, announcing some really, really, really, really awesome new things. And by new and awesome and cool and really, I mean, like a lot. So get ready because we are really, really excited about the announcement we will be making during that episode. So keep an eye out, get ready, get hyped, and also get really hyped for Across the Spider-Verse because it looks like it’s going to be a great film and I guess I’ll change it for this one just because I’ll give Sony the credit. But Sony is about to blow your mind, so let’s talk about it.