Transcript

Taylor: Well, listeners, we have our last episode for you today. That is it’s not our last episode before anybody freaks out. It’s not our last episode.

Katie: That is a really bad way to start that.

Taylor: Don’t anybody get nervous. It is our last episode related directly to Secret Invasion that we are going to be talking about today. It is not our last episode, trust me. We have a whole rest of the year planned for you guys and special stuff coming. 

Katie: I was really shocked. I was going to be unemployed for a second there.

Taylor: I know this was my way of telling Katelyn I quit. I’m out and I was telling her live on this recording. No, no, no. We are, we’re good. We are not leaving your ears, I promise. But what is going to be leaving your ears after this episode is anything related directly to Secret Invasion. At least for a while, until we probably get into The Marvels and are doing some callbacks because clearly those two projects are related. But for right now we are going to be talking today all about President Ritson and his war and what that might mean for upcoming projects like The Marvels. Specifically, we’re going to dive into things like the Kree peace talks and how we get from Ritson to Ross because as we all know, our wonderful Harrison Ford is taking over as President Ross in the new Captain America movie that’s coming out next year. So I think it begs to be talked about how are we getting from this current president who is very much anti-Skrull, anti-alien, to President Ross in a future film. With all that to be said, Katie, why don’t you kick us off?

Katie: Yeah, I mean, as you said, you teed that up beautifully. We are going to be getting some sort of Kree/Skrull peace talks in the coming future. We talked about this a little bit on the blog. We talked about it a little bit in our reactions episode to episode six of Secret Invasion. And I also talked about it a little bit in the newsletter, just about what this could all mean and what the future holds, with The Marvels being involved with all of this. The first thing I want to say to get us kickstarted and going and we did say this in episode six reactions, but I’m just going to say it again. We are very confident The Marvels takes place after Secret Invasion at this point. So we are expecting what we’re seeing now to feed very nicely into The Marvels. We’re expecting to see a pretty good storyline that follows through. I know Taylor said that a little bit, but I just want to say it very blatantly. Put it out there. We are definitely expecting The Marvels to be a form of a sequel to some of the events of what’s going to be happening or what took place in Secret Invasion.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, we’re not going to dive too much into the characters that we’re going to see in The Marvels, because of course, we’re going to do our usual deep dive research into all of them, where they’ve been in preparation for that film in a few months. But we will have to address, of course, some of those characters, at least at a high level, so that we understand how they specifically will play. One of the characters that I think is really, really important coming out of Secret Invasion is the villain of The Marvels, Zawe Ashton’s character, Dar-Benn. And so Dar-Benn is actually a leader within the Kree. They’re kind of co-leaders with Ael-Dan, I’m going to probably butcher that. That’s definitely not how they’re going to say that in the film if that characters in the film, but you know, I gave it a good old college try. And they’re co-leaders, but I think one of the things that we need to talk about as we get into the idea of Kree and Skrull peace talks is where the Kree really stands as an empire now. In all of the articles I was reading in preparation for this episode, they were talking a lot about the weakening of the Kree empire, starting really in Captain Marvel, and especially after the death of Ronan the Accuser in Guardians of the Galaxy. And I started off with Dar-Benn because I think in a lot of ways, and I’ve read this online as well, that Dar-Benn is really a successor to Ronan the Accuser. You, of course, see her with the Accuser staff multiple times throughout the different trailers. And you kind of get the vibe from her, especially her voiceover, that she’s of the more militaristic, the more radicalized Kree. So I think there could be a conflict with her there against the idea of an alliance with the Kree. So that’s something to keep in mind or sorry with the Skrulls. So that’s something to keep in mind because if she’s pushing for Kree dominance, that directly goes in the face of an alliance between the Kree and the Skrulls, which is of course, where we left off in Secret Invasion.

Katie: That’s a really good way to say that because I was starting to look at her character in my research and just even watching the trailers and then as we’ve seen Gravik now through Secret Invasion. I was very much starting to look at her character similar to his. He has the right idea sort of. He’s very stuck in what he believes is the right thing to do. He just doesn’t execute it well. Unfortunately, we see how that comes back, not only to bite him but just how, you know, catastrophic that started to become. And so I kind of look at her similarly. That’s not to say that’s, I mean, we could still be getting at least two more trailers before this movie comes out.

Taylor: Yeah, ideally. 

Katie: Yeah and that could completely change our point of view of this character, but I’m thinking from what I’ve seen and what I’ve read, she’s definitely cut from the same cloth in my opinion. And so I like that you kind of came to that conclusion a little bit too, that she isn’t really representing the whole of the Kree or it doesn’t appear so. It’s more so she has these older ideals, these things that the Kree used to be that she wants them to be again and she wants to reach that point, and obviously to the Kree, Skrulls and them getting along are just, that’s not going to happen if you’re trying to follow the old ways of how things were done.

Taylor: Yeah, and I think it’s really important here to point out a very obvious parallel in that sense between her and Ronan the Accuser because we see something similar happen in Guardians of the Galaxy, but it’s the Kree and the Nova, the people on, it’s not the Nova Corps, but what are they called? I guess it’s just the Nova, right?

Katie: No, they have a planet.

Taylor: Yeah. Isn’t it Nova? Nova Prime. 

Katie: I’m thinking Xandar.

Taylor: Oh, yeah. Oh, the Nova is the Corp. They’re the Xandarians.

Katie: Okay. I was like, No, there’s a whole planet, I’m pretty sure I feel. It’s been a little bit since I watched the first Guardians, but I’m confident in that. 

Taylor: Yeah. I’m also, though, wondering if, like in the movie they kind of combine the Xandararians with other people. Like you know how sometimes groups are like an amalgamation of different groups from the comics? I feel like everything I was reading in preparation for this episode was all about Nova this, Nova that, but it never mentioned Xandar. And now I’m like wondering if that was kind of the MCU’s take on that where it’s kind of like a mix of what would be two different people in the comics.

Katie: That’s possible. I just feel pretty confident in saying the planet itself is considered Xandar.

Taylor: I think I agree with you. So what we’ll do is we’ll take a deeper dive into all of that and by the time that we’re covering The Marvels and everything, we’ll have a little bit more of a clearer picture of some of these different groups of aliens that I think are very easily confused, at least if you’re us. But going back to my original example, you know, when they are having that early expositional moment in the Guardians movie, the Kree are trying to create a peace treaty with those people. And that’s what Ronan doesn’t want. That’s exactly the opposite of what he wants. And so I can see that Dar-Benn here could almost be like the next generation of Ronan. But instead of the Xandarians and the Nova Corps being the people that they’re trying to have an alliance with, now they’re trying to ally themselves with their number one enemy, which is probably even more of a slap in the face if you’re more of a traditionalist Kree. So I think that could potentially be where Dar-Benn is coming from in The Marvels.

Katie: Yeah, and I think that helps tie into I mean, obviously, we’ve seen there are going to be Skrulls in The Marvels. My theory I’m putting out right now, quite frankly, is the fact that I don’t think those are Earth Skrulls. I think they’re the colony that didn’t settle and come down to earth.

Taylor: Interesting.

Katie: I think that makes the most sense, personally. I think the Skrulls on Earth are going to war with humans. They’re a little busy. I’m not sure they’re too worried about those peace talks, especially when they don’t have a general. The closest leader they have is G’iah, and we have not confirmed that she’s gathered her people. They all seem to have gone away and gone into hiding. So I’m going with the fact that the likelihood is Captain Marvel is likely in space with these Skrulls. That’s what the background kind of looks like. Definitely doesn’t look as if they’re on earth somewhere. And I’m going to assume it’s the colony. I mean, also, who else would be calling for these peace talks? I don’t think the Kree just suddenly had the idea either. I think it takes both sides to decide they’re going to do this. And so I wouldn’t be shocked if and now I’m blanking on his name, but we did a whole thing in the blog where I made sure to answer your question because you couldn’t remember his name. But the other general who’s leading the other colony, I wouldn’t be shocked if he is kind of leading the charge as well in trying to decide if they can finally make peace with a longtime enemy. 

Taylor: I don’t disagree. I totally see all of the merits in that theory. I do think as a counter theory and something that I wouldn’t put off the table yet is the idea that the Kree see what the humans are doing against the Skrulls and they see Captain Marvel as a human right, even though she lived a long time on Hala with them. She has Kree blood flowing through her veins. She’s not really one of them. They think of her as a human, in my opinion, that’s just, my observation, right? So they see Earth as a threat because that’s where Captain Marvel is from. They also recognize that the Skrulls probably now see Earth as a threat because the US President literally threatened their existence on quote-unquote his planet. So I think there are some synergies there in that now that they have a common enemy in humans. And so I think that’s an interesting thing to think about. The other thing that is much less of a positive spin on it and a little bit more sinister is that the Kree see what’s happening on Earth and they’re like, oh, so now the humans are going to be against the Skrulls, this is the perfect time for us to go to the bargaining table because we now have all the leverage. They can come to the bargaining table and ask for anything from the Skrulls almost because the Skrulls are in such a bad position because their literal lives are being threatened by not only the US President, but also just random people and mobs who are just killing people who are supposed to be Skrulls or whatever, who they suspect of being an alien, and now all of a sudden they’re in a much weaker place in a bargaining situation because they have nothing to really bargain for. So I think you can either view it three different ways, really your way, or Kree and Skrull now have a common enemy, or the Kree are like actually we can use this to our advantage and get a whole heck of a lot out of our former enemies.

Katie: First off, I’m going to just say if anybody thought that one plot line sounded a little familiar, shout out to Agents of SHIELD. What? Seasons pretty much two through four so far? And the hunt for the Inhumans. This has turned very similar to that. And yes, listeners, I am halfway through season four just for the update so everybody knows where I’m at because we’ve been keeping track.

Taylor: I’m almost halfway through season one, so we are getting there. I’m never going to catch up to her, but you know, I am doing my best.

Katie: Well, you know, some of us just binge harder than others. But either way, going on to the second point, I agree. I think there are a couple of ways to look at this. If I were to argue against, you know, it’s not the other colony of Skrulls, I actually would like to take your thought a little further and think, you know, there is comic book precedence of the Skrulls and Kree, you know, having, I don’t want to say like an alliance, but sort of teaming up and working together. So that’s not far out of the realm of something we could see. If we are talking about the Skrulls from Earth, I would not be entirely shocked if and this isn’t even retconning it, but it almost in a weird way is. If this peace talk goes the right way and say the Skrulls on Earth are allowed to leave, they can get off. They find a planet or the Kree help them. And I’m going pretty far in this way, just because the Kree already started to help them immediately seems a little funky.

Taylor: I agree.

Katie: You know, And maybe they don’t. Maybe they just allow them, they find a planet for them and they’re just like, you know what? Just go like, that’s fine and say the Skrulls do leave Earth. I think to your point in your second argument, the Skrulls have a problem with humans now. Whether or not they chose to or not, the humans chose that. And so I actually could almost see if these peace talks work out for the Skrulls and if the Kree and the Skrulls are kind of like hey, you know, we don’t really like these people on this earth and you don’t really like these people on this earth because they started trying to hunt you. What do you say? And I could actually see that being the start of an actual Secret Invasion plot from the comics. And that’s how the Skrulls start infiltrating. Just when everybody maybe thinks the Skrulls are gone or they aren’t finding them, and maybe the paranoia kind of shifts a little bit, that’s when they start to come back down to earth and now they’re angry. And I think that’s how you get that plot to kind of shift then because right now we all feel bad for the Skrulls. They just want a home, I mean, Gravik as much and we said this in episode six reactions as much as you look at him and we kind of were like, wow, he’s kind of psycho. We understood why, we got where he came from. We understood why he was trying so hard to help his people. It obviously turned into more than that at the end, but we got it and they’re sympathetic. So in order to make them something we should fear again, I can almost see a big shift coming through these peace talks.

Taylor: You wanna hear a crazy theory? What if this is the opportunity and we’re going to have a whole nother episode about Inhumans and why this is probably not a thing, I’m going to speak it into existence because we just talked about Agents of SHIELD. What if this is the opportunity for the Kree to begin the basis of the Inhumans?

Katie: I love that.

Taylor: Right. That’s their contribution to the war against humans is building or creating the Inhumans evolving, doing what they do, and the Skrulls are doing their part by infiltrating in secret. And so it’s kind of like a two-pronged war because each one has their own specialty and each one is bringing something to it. As I said, we’re going to do a lot more talking about the Inhumans in an upcoming episode, but I want to speak this into existence because there are some really interesting Inhumans out there. There’s the Royal family. There’s a lot of talk around Inhumans right now, and I personally am really interested in them, and I would really like to see them come back.

Katie: I really like that, especially because I don’t think I understood fully the Kree storyline in Agents of SHIELD.

Taylor: It’s very confusing.

Katie: It is confusing because they created them, but they also created everything they needed to destroy them. And I just didn’t understand I think. I think it went a little over my head. Then I was like, oh, I get it and then someone came to kill them. It was just a lot. I would kind of and, you know, we’ll get into this, I’m sure, sometime in the future with Agents of SHIELD and canon and everything else. But I wouldn’t be against the MCU, you know, kind of just saying, no, I’m sorry, AOS it’s not canon but we’re going to do it a different way.

Taylor: Or at least canon in the sense that it’s not 616, and that’s fine because I mean, as I’m rewatching the show, I don’t think I actually ever finished it. I think there was like half a season left. But as I’m rewatching the early seasons, I’m reminded of how much I enjoyed the show. And so I don’t want to completely ignore it. And I know it has very avid fans online. A few people have yelled at me over the years about things that I’ve said about whether or not it actually is canon, so I want to clarify what we mean. I think it’s a very valid show, but I don’t always know that it’s 616. I think Katie and I have talked about this. There are things and we’ll have a whole conversation about this, but I just want to summarize it top level. There are things that are really hard to line up with the MCU because they should have been Avengers-level threats. And so I could see a world in which we are able to say it exists in another universe and we’re going to now take the Inhumans, I think Katie this is where you were getting at. We’re going to take the Inhumans and do the MCU version of it. But that doesn’t negate everything that Agents of SHIELD have done because that exists in a different universe.

Katie: Right, yeah, exactly and you put the words right in my mouth. That’s what I’m thinking and kind of where I would like them to go just the MCU does their version of it. Explains how the Kree does everything they do with the Inhumans a lot better than I feel I understood. I don’t even know if I didn’t understand how they did it. I just don’t understand why they did them and then they want to kill them. That was just my confusion. I think that could open a lot of doors. And to your point, I like the two-pronged approach. I think. I mean, as AOS showed, the wrong Inhuman or the wrong person who ends up being an Inhuman can wreak havoc.

Taylor: Totally.

Katie: So I definitely really enjoy that.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, I would love to see it, but I do want to point out one more thing from my side about this potential Kree/Skrull alliance, and that is that interestingly enough, in the comics, the leader of this alliance is actually Hulkling. And if you remember all the way back from our Young Avengers episode, which was months ago, now, which is crazy to think about.

Katie: After Ant-Man, yep.

Taylor: Yeah, I know. And so that was like, what, March or April? Nuts. He is actually a Kree/Skrull, I don’t want to say hybrid, but one of his parents was Kree and one of his parents was a Skrull. So he is the perfect leader. He has a little bit of both in him. He obviously would have the interests of both at the forefront, not leaning too far one way or the other. And the reason I think this is important is, of course, we’ve talked about no matter how much the executives at Marvel want to deny it, we are going to eventually get the Young Avengers. And so whether we actually it could be interesting because Hulkling is one that we haven’t seen yet, it could be interesting if the way that we actually get him is as the leader of this Kree/Skrull alliance and then he comes in that way.

Katie: I was just about to say that, yep. 

Taylor: And it would not, to my knowledge, it would not go the way of the comics, but I mean, come on, we all know the comics are a rough outline that we may or may not follow, and I would really love to see it. I think this could be a really cool way to bring in that character in a way that we haven’t seen a character brought in quite yet, and it would be really awesome.

Katie: I also personally just think it would help me understand why these talks are finally ready to happen. Because I think that’s the last thing I don’t get from this is suddenly and this kind of goes I know I said earlier, these talks have to be two-sided. Kree could want to talk and the Skrulls could want nothing to do with them or vice versa. So clearly there are people on both sides who are willing to kind of call a truce and say, let’s figure out this, so we stop killing each other. We stop, you know, this weird revenge plot thing that we’ve had going on for at least 40 years and, you know, move on. So I’m almost wondering if what finally calls that is the fact that there is this, I almost called him a human being. He’s definitely not a human being. But there’s this being now that is both, which not only just, you know, what do you do with that? Are they a Skrull? Are they a Kree? Who knows? But that also means that a Kree and a Skrull physically had a child together.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: So that on itself, going to that deeper level, clearly there’s a possibility for people to get along. I mean that I don’t know the laws of all the alien planets and everything else that they have, but I’m sure that’s a big no-no. And now you have this child who’s equal parts of both.

Taylor: Yeah. I mean, honestly, that is one of my favorite theories. I think that and the Inhumans possibly coming out of this are two of the things that I hope for the most. And I hope that those are the doors that Secret Invasion opened, even if it’s like really subtly. You know, I was looking at something that the director said today or I was looking today at something the director said, I don’t know when he said it where he was like he was asked, you know, why no end credits. And the director said, well, Marvel uses the end credits to launch something new. Maybe this show was just self-contained in and of itself, but I think nothing in the MCU is ever self-contained. You have characters who are crossing over different projects, they have different connections, all of that. And so I think what could be interesting is even though the director views this as a very self-contained project, there are certainly things that are going to have ramifications far beyond. And those are two that I am really, really pulling for.

Katie: I agree. I mean, first off, arguably the only thing I think so far that is self-contained is Moon Knight. 

Taylor: One hundred percent.

Katie: I think that’s one of the only projects.

Taylor: Maybe if you’re going to special presentations, maybe Werewolf by Night, but that also doesn’t really count because it’s not even a full series. It’s obviously in the MCU, but like it was a special presentation. That’s a whole nother can of worms.

Katie: Right. So I would say arguably the only thing that we’ve gotten so far from phases four and five that is self-contained, we have not tied it to anything else in the MCU on paper, because I will say we’ve mentioned some things that he could be involved in in the future. But from the show itself, there is no connection to the MCU. So I would have to argue that. I also have to think when you do a show that’s pretty much a sequel already to another existing movie, how can you say it’s self-contained? And when you’re mentioning the Avengers every other breath in the show, how is that self-contained?

Taylor: Yeah, I think to clarify, I think they meant self-contained in the sense that like it was one story, not necessarily meant to launch other things, but still, like if you’re bringing in a character like Nick Fury, who is going to be in the next film, how can that, what you’re doing in this project not affect how he’s going to act in future films?

Katie: You made a Mega Super Skrull and you’re going to tell me this was self-contained? 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: We’ve said this last episode, we’ll say it, and we said it in episode six reactions. We’re taking some of the director’s takes with a grain of salt because while he directed it, sometimes I’m not sure he was on his own project.

Taylor: Yeah, tell me one more time, my guy, that Rhodey was taken in Civil War and we will have some very strong words for you because I’m over it and I don’t feel that way.

Katie: This is becoming my passion project.

Taylor: Literally. If I die on one hill, it will be that Rhodey was taken after Endgame. That is a hell I am willing to die on.

Katie: I agree. This is becoming my Civil War Part Two. And weirdly enough, I’m on the Iron Man side.

Taylor: Is it becoming your Steve never should have left Bucky Part Two?

Katie: You know what? Yeah, it is and I will fight to the death for this because it’s so screwed up. I will not allow them to tell me this.

Taylor: Yeah. We got to move on because I’m just going to get angrier and angrier and I don’t want to go through the rest of this episode angry.

Katie: I know I’m getting red in the face. All right, well, Taylor said it. Let’s move on. Second part of this episode, let’s talk about how Ritson is no longer going to become president. Clearly, very quickly, we are still hopefully, as things are shaking out a little weird right now in Hollywood, hopefully still getting Cap 4 next year on time because honestly, we’ve already had a lot of delays. I hope we don’t end up having more, but we will see. And we know Ross is going to be president. So before we get into how this happens, I just want to point something out. It didn’t really have a good place on either of these topics, but yet fit very well overall with both the topics. When Taylor and I were talking about Ritson and his choice to say, you know, all alien life, you’re done, you’re out. I want to remind people that New Asgard exists on Earth and they are aliens. So I just want to put it out there that I can’t assume that New Asgard is safe anymore. I would actually like to put out there that I think it’s going to be a great plot point for Thor 5 and it would actually be a very full circle moment for our buddy Thor to come back to Midgard and, you know, be protecting his people. So I just want to throw that out there. As I said, that didn’t really have a good place in either of these segments, but it also dealt with this topic. So I just wanted to throw it out there so we’re not missing it because I definitely think people are starting to put some of those pieces together on the Internet.

Taylor: Yeah, no, it’s definitely a good point to recognize the very intentional language used because I think he could have so easily said all Skrulls, but he didn’t. He said all aliens. And so there’s a lot to be said for that. You know, I think, too, let’s not forget we’re umpteen not umpteen. We’re however many years out from a major alien invasion. So there’s clearly some sensitivity to people from other planets. And, you know, I’m trying to think I, I can’t think off the top of my head right now of any other alien species that are on the planet.

Katie: The only other one I could and he’s not really a species, but I mean, Peter Quill is half alien.

Taylor: That is true, but nobody really knows who he is.

Katie: And the Eternals are kind of a funky group too.

Taylor: Are they even really alive? Like that I don’t understand.

Katie: As much as I greatly enjoyed that movie. I do think they’re robots, but that’s my running theory. I might not have gotten the right thing out of that film.

Taylor: Yeah, that’s one plot point where I was like, I’m confuzzled. But anyway, before we go down a very weird rabbit hole. 

Katie: We’ll save it for another time.

Taylor: Yeah, just know, just keep in the back of your mind like Katie said, that we’re not limiting it to just Skrulls. So if we do have any future aliens joining us on Earth, they too will be a part of or a target of Ritson’s law or proclamation or whatever you want to call it.

Katie: Yeah. So now that we just got that off our chests, I just wanted to put that out there. Let’s talk about how this could happen, Ritson to Ross. Quite frankly, I’m going to throw something out there that I don’t even like, but I’m going to say it. Fury sat there and said to Ritson what you just did is a one-term president sort of thing. I don’t agree. I think to your point, Taylor, we just came off of a mega-alien invasion. I mean, half of the planet was gone for five years and then magically reappeared because the Avengers had another alien invasion to bring them back. I actually think the people are so probably strung out and paranoid about this that they turn to the more extreme candidate. And Ross likely and this goes kind of into politics just like in general but I think Ross likely runs against Ritson when Ritson’s going for a second term. And Ross is probably a lot more extreme. And right now when Ritson just sat there and said the Skrulls are among them, I think people probably want the really extreme dude who’s going to come on and do who knows what, because Ross has quite the resume already. And so actually because Ritson didn’t die or wasn’t a Skrull or anything else that we saw in Secret Invasion, I almost wonder if it’s just going to be as simple as the people vote for the person they think is going to get the job done the most.

Taylor: I have so many thoughts coming out of that that I don’t even know where to begin.

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: I’ll start with the least crazy and then I’ll work my way up to sheer bonkers. So I think what you were saying about the politics of the candidates, right? I have three thoughts related to this. 

Katie: Okay. 

Taylor: Well, two of them are like opposing and then one is like completely off on its own. So it’s not too insane, I promise. The two that are kind of opposing is that you know, I think the people could go one of two ways when it comes to Ross specifically because, one, they could be annoyed that there are no Avengers, where the heck are the Avengers? I remember Ross was very publicly against the Avengers. He was for the Sokovia Accords. He was for hunting down Cap and all of the secret Avengers. So he has a public reputation for being against enhanced individuals. That could be something that is appealing to some people who feel that after the Blip, the Avengers abandoned them and that everything that has happened since then, which, you know, timelines are screwy, so you don’t know exactly what movies we can count or not count and shows and all that. But to some extent, I would think the average human knows that something’s a little off and that there have been some pretty large events that the Avengers have not been a part of as a team. Obviously, we’ve seen them on an individual level. I think in the opposite direction you might have people who say this guy is the reason that this happened. If he had just left the Avengers alone and let them be a unit, Thanos wouldn’t have won the first time, right? That’s the argument that a lot of people have, is that if he had let the Avengers just do their thing and be a cohesive unit, that there would have been a more coordinated effort in order to stop Thanos. And he never would have gotten the stones he needed that were remaining on Earth in order to do the Snap the first time. So I think that could go both ways.

Katie: My only argument against the second half is that depends on how much the people of Earth know. We as observers know a lot of this, obviously, because it’s the main point of movies like Civil War. I’m not saying that I don’t think the people of Earth know things about how the Avengers sort of fell apart, all that, because obviously a lot of that was on national news. I mean, Bucky’s face was plastered everywhere because he was being framed for a bombing. I just don’t know how some of these inner details shook out.

Taylor: Can I say something?

Katie: Am I going to not like it?

Taylor: No, it’s fine. It’s not a it’s not a theory. It’s actually an in-universe confirmed two things. One, Far From Home. I’m going to get this right. On the plane, you actually see documentaries about the battle for Earth, right, and all of that.

Katie: I don’t remember. That movie came out so long ago. I don’t remember.

Taylor: Well, on one, I think it’s Far From Home. I know at some point there is an airplane documentary about the battle. And I think it’s I do believe it’s Far From Home because it’s Peter and they’re talking about Tony’s death. And like you’re just he’s getting those small reminders right about how Tony died. So there’s that. But then also there is Scott Lang and his memoir, which is why a lot of people actually know a lot more than we thought. I mean, people knew enough to say to Strange, hey, maybe you shouldn’t have made that decision where you let everybody go for five years. Remember, we had this entire conversation?

Katie: That’s totally fair. 

Taylor: People know a lot more than we thought that they knew. And so I think that there’s probably a larger understanding of Ross’s role in disassembling the Avengers.

Katie: That’s definitely fair. The only thing that you just jogged to me is I don’t actually know how people would have known that about Doctor Strange because Ant-Man wasn’t there, so that would have been a trickle-down. But anyway, that is fair. I definitely forgot about that. Scott being Scott and having his podcast and memoir.

Taylor: Oh yeah, and a podcast. Go Scott.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely everywhere. So I did forget about that, although I think the only thing I have to argue is the fallout of Civil War. He was arrested and then put on house arrest. He wasn’t directly there and then he disappeared for he was gone for five years too because he was sucked into the Quantum tunnel or the Quantum, well he was in the Quantum realm. So I only have to say is I’m not sure during that time period he had a lot of information about how the Sokovia Accords shook out and stuff like that because I don’t know if he was really, one, he wasn’t part of the core group and two, he wasn’t really present for a lot of the aftermath and like Infinity War, I mean all that. So that’s the only other thing I’m going to say. But that is true. I did forget he kind of has said a lot.

Taylor: Yeah. And I mean, I do want to just say, the last thing I’ll say about Scott and then I’ll actually go into my third tangential thing that happened a few minutes ago, or I was going to say a few minutes ago.

Katie: Sorry, I just had to. I want to respond to them while you’re saying them.

Taylor: No, it’s a good thing because it’s important that we have those like refreshers, right? Because if you don’t think about what the public knows, like in this conversation, at least that’s an important thing to understand is the public knowledge. But in terms of like and the last thing I’ll say about Scott is I think he was there for enough to understand what President Ross’s role was. Sorry, not President Ross at the time, he was General Ross. Understand what General Ross’s role was in breaking up the Avengers, right? He understood enough to know that Ross was the one who put him on the raft. So, you know, I think that is enough to at least give people an understanding of what was Ross doing to help the Avengers along in their disbandment, essentially. But getting back to my third point, I think one other possibility is not that Ross is running against Ritson, but that Ross is actually Ritson’s vice president.

Katie: I was just going to say that.

Taylor: Yeah, you know, what if they’re from the same party and Ritson obviously didn’t bite it in Secret Invasion but he did put out a very polarizing proclamation. It could very well be that a Skrull kills him. It could very well be that a Skrull sympathizer kills him. It could very well be that one of his own, I don’t wanna say his own followers because that’s, I don’t know that he necessarily has followers in that sense, but it could be someone who believes what he’s saying. And one of those people who are taking matters into their own hands gets it into their head that Ritson is a Skrull.

Katie: Well look at, who was that like the French Prime Minister?

Taylor: The British Prime Minister.

Katie: Yeah, because the French have presidents, right? 

Taylor: Yeah. But yeah, the British Prime Minister had actually been brought back and then killed when she was no longer a Skrull. And so you know, maybe his own proclamation literally comes back to bite him in the butt and that’s how Ross comes in. I would actually love that. I think you would be like a perfect full circle moment, but I think we can’t ignore that opportunity as well.

Katie: Well, you can also run with that and say even if he’s not necessarily his vice president, you could also go with that theory saying he’s running against him. I mean, I didn’t even think about the fact that you know, I even compare it to the Inhuman plot line, and I didn’t even say it out loud. The fact that you do have these people taking it upon themselves to think that they can kill the Skrulls when they don’t know who the Skrulls are.

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: And we do see that at the end of the show, we see people killing people who are not Skrulls because they think they’re doing the right thing. They don’t want these aliens here. So actually, yeah, I mean, I could see that also just being even if he’s not his vice president, I could see that and he doesn’t get assassinated or whatever. I could see that being a big losing point for him that I mean, indirectly, he’s responsible for the Prime Minister of Great Britain’s death. And I’m sure other people because they’re being targeted by mercenaries and just also regular people who just bring up arms and think they’re fighting for the human race. So I actually really like that because I think that regardless of how that goes, he did have a polarizing point there. And he’s got blood on his hands, quite frankly.

Taylor: Yeah and I think that one way or another, he’s going to pay for that. Whether that’s in an election, which I mean, come on, an election is a little too tame for an MCU.

Katie: But I didn’t think he’d make it out of Secret Invasion.

Taylor: No, and that’s true. But I don’t know. There’s just something to me, I think, because they’re making such a big deal about it being Harrison Ford and President or General Ross becoming president, that I feel like something of that level of gravity has to be made possible through something more of a grander scale than an election. And I know, you know, if you’re a US-based person, our elections haven’t been so tame lately, but, you know, on the whole, through most of history, our elections have been. So I think, you know, we’re going to take this from a purely US lens because that’s where we’re based. But we have a perception that and this is the US in the show as well, the US elections tend to run pretty smoothly. And so I just feel like coming from that perspective. I just don’t know that you’re going to have such a major character stepping on to such a major role in becoming president by something like an election that just seems too anticlimactic for, I think, where we’re going.

Katie: I don’t think I disagree, but I will now we’ll switch sides and I’ll play devil’s advocate a little bit on that one. I have to say, we’ve never seen a changing of the president before. We’ve just gotten new presidents.

Taylor: Yeah, it’s never been a focal point.

Katie: Yeah. We’ve just suddenly, okay, that guy’s term was up. That makes sense. It’s been like, forever. So now we’re just, we have a new one. Just even now we have Ritson and the last president, I remember, is the one from Iron Man 3.

Taylor: I was just thinking the same thing, the one with the daughter, and actually Jenna Ortega in the wheelchair.

Katie: Well, that was his vice president, though.

Taylor: Oh, yeah, you’re right.

Katie: Yeah. So, I mean, and maybe there’s another president in between. I couldn’t tell you because I don’t I genuinely don’t remember. Granted, that’s not our focal point by then, we were dealing with things like Infinity War, and even Civil War, which was a lot. So I will say we haven’t really usually seen the changing of the presidents. They’ve kind of just happened. I also do have to say, I don’t know. I just don’t I don’t know if they’re going to put the focus on it between what we know is coming. Unless this is touched on in The Marvels in some way, shape, or form. The only way is obviously if Fury’s back on Earth for a little bit, which we know he is. But honestly, I could tell you I have a bad feeling that like the three shots of any of them on Earth might be the most we get of them on Earth. So other than The Marvels, I mean, what’s next really before Cap 4? Loki’s not going to do anything to this plotline. Loki won’t tie into this in that way.

Taylor: I mean, Echo will be on Earth. So that’s a way to kind of, it’s definitely not going to be a focal point for sure, but it is a way to kind of have it mentioned in a one-liner or something like that.

Katie: But we pose the other question of when does Echo take place in comparison to these? That’s the biggest, isn’t this the argument we have every time? It comes back down to the fact that we don’t have an actual for sure timeline of when things are happening.

Taylor: Well, it’s interesting because I was I don’t remember what social media I was on and someone was like, you know, I’m kind of annoyed at the fact that they refused to stick to a year now. They just say present day and they’ll go like 1995, 1997, present day and I’m like, you know what? I never thought about it, but you’re right. They’re not sticking to a timeline so they can go back and retcon stuff in when they need to so that we’re not having conversations like we were in Spider-Man Homecoming, where we’re like, the math isn’t mathing when it was like however many years later from 2012 and you’re like, but no.

Katie: Well, that’s my concern. And because they’re not really confirming actual dates for a lot of them, or at least years, we could argue, I mean, Echo’s going to be a continuation of Hawkeye. Theoretically, it takes place right after Hawkeye. That’s cool. All I know is Hawkeye takes place during Christmas. That could be before. That could be after this point.

Taylor: I thought we had, I think we had a year for Hawkeye. But I’d have to go back and try to remember what it was because they very specifically said X amount of years after the Blip. Like I’m pretty sure that was explicitly said in the show.

Katie: Well, either way, I think Secret Invasions after it regardless. So I would have to assume there’s a high possibility Echo could also be before Secret Invasion, technically.

Taylor: You’re right. And I would have to say like if my money is to pick a property where something’s going to happen and we’re actually going to see something happen to the president, I would have to say it’s The Marvels because clearly the president is now tied into a Skrull storyline. And the most obvious Skrull storyline we’re getting in the future is The Marvels. Could it be that we actually see as part of whatever’s happening in brewing with the Kree and the Skrulls we actually see a Skrull go and assassinate the US President? Sure. Why the heck wouldn’t that be in this film? It would fit. You know, and I could see that happening. So I have to think that if we’re going to make the presidential transition a focal point, The Marvels is going to be where that happens. I think if that goes by and we don’t see it, then it may just be something we don’t talk about and it may just be in a newspaper. Oh, blah blah elected. Obviously, we know it’s Ross but you know or Ritson assassinated Ross to step up or Vice President Ross to step into the presidential role like whatever that is we could literally just do a newspaper like we have in other places.

Katie: My only other thought would be we get to Brave New World and he’s not yet president and becomes president in that movie.

Taylor: Also very fair.

Katie: Yeah, that’s my only other thought because if not, I have a feeling it’s going to be a back burner sort of thing, we just see it pass like it’s passed before. Otherwise, I’m not, it could just be we find out in Brave New World, we watch it happen as a b-plot or c-plot or whatever because, I mean, obviously it’s Captain America. Of course, he’s going to have relations with the government. I wouldn’t be necessarily against that just being the simple answer that we just see the baton passed somewhere there or we see, you know if Ritson is meant to die, Ritson dies and we see everything happen in that film, because I do think that’s the most grounded. I also think when you’re spewing red, white, and blue at me, I’m thinking of presidents and the USA. So I would think that might be the most logical place for it to happen, but we’ll have to see.

Taylor: Yeah. No, it’ll be, it’ll be interesting. I think Ritson opened a can of worms that he doesn’t truly understand yet and nobody really understands the ramifications. But I think he was particularly rash because I don’t think he had even 10% of the information at the time. But I think we’re definitely going to see whether that’s in The Marvels, whether that’s in Brave New World, whether that’s in future projects down the road. We’re going to see the ramifications of this moving forward. And it’s not going to stop here as Secret Invasion. It’s going to be an important plotline or at least a B-plot in future properties.

Katie: I agree, and I think it’ll be interesting because we are eventually getting President Ross. He’s coming our way and so I’m excited for that to happen. But I’m definitely unsure how we’re going to reach that quite yet.

Taylor: Yeah. The two other things that I did think about real quick. I thought maybe there’s some weird time travel thing where somehow Ross is just president. Like, you know how like, they sometimes some weird time travel stuff happens and then all of a sudden you’re like, almost in a parallel universe. That was my super weird off-the-wall one.

Katie: I don’t like that, and I’m going to ignore it.

Taylor: That’s fair. I didn’t like it, but I felt like it had to be said. My other one that I’ve been gnawing on and I don’t know how it works yet. The mechanics of it, but knowing that Ross is going to turn into Red Hulk, is there something, and obviously that’s not confirmed, but we all know it. 

Katie: I was going to say that’s not confirmed. That’s just us passionately saying that, right?

Taylor: Right. I think that’s where everybody’s leaning, you know, especially knowing the Leader is going to be in that film. You know, is there some sort of thing that I don’t know Ritson gets involved in, in some kind of experimentation, and that goes wrong? Like I haven’t fully worked out how that connects yet. I just know that Ross is bringing with him some baggage, some serious sciencey baggage to the presidency, and I just wonder if maybe that expedites his ability to become president. Like I said, not a fully baked thought yet, but I’m just putting it out there for everybody to ruminate on.

Katie: Yeah, I’m just trying to understand how that expedites anything more than probably makes people feel less wanting of Ross.

Taylor: If they know about it.

Katie: Yeah, but then how would it expedite it?

Taylor: I don’t know. Maybe he goes out and kills Ritson as Red Hulk. I haven’t like I said, I don’t know what that looks like. I just can’t get the DODC and Ross out of my head yet I think because we didn’t see them but expected to see them in Secret Invasion and we know they’re there. We know that they’re another government agency that’s got their hands in a lot of stuff. They’ve probably got some very powerful weapons. They have access to very powerful people and that’s something I’m ruminating on. I might come back to you guys either via a tweet or what do you call a Thread? Like a thread? Is that what the people are calling them?

Katie: Dude, I have no clue.

Taylor: And maybe it’s a thread. Maybe it’s an Instagram story that Katie posted for us. I have no idea. If I think about how this is going to work and fully flesh it out, you guys will be the first ones to know, but I just it’s something that I’m thinking about, something that I’m trying to work out in my head. And I didn’t want to leave this episode without at least putting it out there for everyone. If you guys think of some way that this works out or that it can tie in, please definitely let us know because that’s why we’re doing this, everybody has amazing theories and interesting thoughts and one theory leads to another. That’s how we run this show. And so maybe one of you has something like even if it’s crazy or off the wall might spark something so you guys know where to find us. But that is my call to action for this episode. Think a little bit about Ross and his potential future transformations. And on that note, we’re going to call it a wrap on our Ritson and his War on Skrulls episode. Definitely make sure you’re following us for all of our future coverage. We have some interesting topics and some interesting new formats coming at you all for the next few weeks, so definitely pay attention there and make sure that you’re following so that you get notifications when all of our episodes come out. You can also check out the website. We’ll have updates on there, the calendars up there, and you can support the show via our affiliate links as well, which of course, like I always say, makes our show better for you.

Katie: Follow us on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Instagram and Threads at SistersAssembled. Make sure you’re doing that just to make sure you’re keeping up with the new episodes, the new blog posts, anything fun, theories, and everything pretty much that has to do with the shows you will be seeing there. So make sure you guys give us a follow on whatever platform you guys want to interact with us the most. I also just want to say before we wrap things up, we are looking for some people to make a feature on our 100th episode. Believe it or not, we are coming up to our 100th episode only a few weeks away, so make sure if you guys want to be featured, go check out our Instagram, our Twitter, and our Threads. We do have information on it there, how you can submit your voice memos and get yourself featured on that episode, so go check that out. And as Taylor said, we have some pretty cool episodes coming up, some pretty interesting episodes. Next week, we are going to be tackling the Hollywood strikes and Marvelm what this means, and what’s going on. Pretty much everything when you marry those two thoughts together keeping you guys in the loop, but also understanding what that means for some of the Marvel projects coming up. And in the meantime, Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.