Transcript

Taylor: Listeners, we have a very special, different kind of episode for you all today. Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you all know that both the WGA, the Writers Guild of America, and also SAG, Screen Actors Guild, they’re on strike. This means there are no writers and no actors currently working in the industry, and it has brought the industry to a standstill, which means Marvel is no exception. So today we’re going to talk a little bit about the strikes, what they are, what they mean, and then talk about in terms of Marvel. How is it affecting the Marvel Universe? How is it affecting our slate and how might we see that change content moving forward? So without further ado, Katie, why don’t you kick us off?

Katie: Yeah. So as Taylor, said this has kind of been big news, so it’s definitely something I’m sure you guys have been hearing about. For those of you who don’t know, a little bit of background, the writers are the ones who actually, the strikes started with first. The actors kind of followed, I’d say a month and a half later if that honestly, and actually, this is history-making because it hasn’t been since like the 1960s, since both unions have gone on strike at the same time. So this hasn’t happened in about 60 years. And so it’s definitely an interesting time and it’s all honestly mainly coming down to the dawn of streaming. And for those of you who are old enough to remember, I guess when cable ruled the world and honestly I’ll say we’re probably on the late cusp of that.

Taylor: We still remember commercial breaks.

Katie: Yeah, we definitely were raised on good old cable, but I definitely think, you know, it was pretty early into our teens that Netflix came on to the board. So I will say, you know, we’re probably some of that last grouping. But for those of you who remember, you know, good old cable and everybody had it, you know, the contracts that the writers and the actors are signing into are from the age of cable, and the new contracts that they want to have need to reflect what streaming is bringing. And unfortunately, these old contracts don’t really reflect the streaming market and that business model. So that’s sort of the general macro idea of why they’re striking because they’re trying to essentially get better contracts for them to actually be able to make a living and also be recognized for their contributions to works that they are contributing to.

Taylor: Yeah, totally. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think with streaming, you know, it’s just a completely new model. It was all about residuals and things like that related to, you know, over-the-air television that we had all been used to. And now they’re just fighting really for their contracts to be updated for the modern age in the way that the business has evolved. And speaking of evolution, you know, there is one other kind of main component that I think both unions are also really focused on, and that is AI. And so that’s another aspect that I think we’ve all realized is, especially in the past, I want to say like 18 months or so has really come to the forefront as something that is really rapidly advancing and going to affect all of us in one way or another. And I think both the Writers Guild of America and SAG have really taken a front foot and saying, look, like this is going to affect, you know, our rights, our compensation, our jobs, and things like that. And they’ve really taken kind of a leadership position, I would think, in society because we’re not really grappling the rest of society with a lot of these questions yet. But they’re asking themselves, you know, how are we going to protect AI from taking our jobs? Or I know there’s an interesting piece of information going around that at one point, you know, the studios wanted a background actor to do one day’s worth of work, basically, take their likeness and be able to AI generate that for the rest of time, but only pay them for that one day’s worth of work. So the question then becomes, how are artists, actors, writers fairly compensated when AI, you know, is part of the equation, because realistically it’s going to be increasingly a part of our way of life. So that’s, I think another really, really big aspect. There are plenty of other additional nuances and things like that. But in terms of what the actors and the writers and, you know, industry experts are saying, I think those are kind of the two main boiling points that are really kind of separating the studios from the unions right now.

Katie: Yeah, I agree. I honestly was because obviously when you talk about things like this, you want to definitely have background, and not that Taylor and I don’t go into every episode with some sort of education prior. 

Taylor: We try.

Katie: We do try. We want to know what we’re talking about or at least try and know what we’re talking about. Sometimes in the case of things like understanding the different Mar-vells and Marvels, we don’t always know what we’re saying. Or in Taylor’s case, she can never get Tom Holland’s Spider-Man trilogy correct. 

Taylor: The sad thing is, I always know, like, I can picture the right movie. I just don’t say the right name.

Katie: Yeah, you know, and it’s okay. It’s okay. We can accept that that is one of your downsides and something you’re not as good at as other people. 

Taylor: Thank you for saying that gently. I really appreciate that.

Katie: You’re welcome. It’s only because we’re on a recording.

Taylor: She roasts me on the side all the time. It’s fine.

Katie: Oh, no. Well, maybe a little. Maybe a little. Okay, I’ll admit a little bit. But anyway, obviously, as I was saying, we definitely wanted to make sure we are aware of what we’re saying. And we’re telling you guys all the things if you’re not paying attention to it, because I’ll tell you, you know, obviously, I know I heard about it immediately. It’s hard not to when you’re in this kind of realm to hear when the writers strike and then again when the actors went on strike. And so, you know, sometimes you don’t always follow everything. You don’t always understand. But I also kind of got those two main ideas from it. I also want to wrap this into kind of the idea of as Taylor talked about AI. You know, this was one of those things that got brought up when we were even talking about the first episode of Secret Invasion, and people were talking about the AI think I know Taylor and I both said, you know, we get both sides. We definitely as far as why the show is the way the show is and how it ties into that, really got the concept of it in kind of a bigger idea, but also then at the same time that show debuted at the time in which you had writers already striking. So it definitely was a little bit not timely, let’s say that.

Taylor: Or a little too timely, depending on how you look at it.

Katie: Yeah, it definitely probably wasn’t one of the best moments Marvel had going into a show. And I mean, granted, they’d probably had that done six months ago, even longer maybe. So, you know, you just don’t know, unfortunately. But yeah, I think those are the really two big things. And to be fair, something I think that you also have to think about is residuals. And we kind of touched on this a little but that, especially with the actors, is one of the biggest things. And you have had a lot of actors coming out sharing their residual checks of what they’re getting off of streaming things. And it’s, I mean, when you look at some of who these actors are coming out and I’m not talking about a Brad Pitt or, you know, any of those really, really big names, although there have been quite a few involved in this as well, I will say that. I know Margot Robbie, I know just because her Barbie press tour was cut slightly short from the release, just because she’s a member of SAG and she did go on strike with the rest and she spoke about it. But, you know, I’m not talking all big names. We’re also talking about some of those smaller actors or maybe actors who are still up and coming or maybe just aren’t household names yet. You know, they’re all members of SAG as well. And, you know, sharing these residuals, the fact that these people are not getting paid at all pretty much. They’re getting paid not even almost minimum wage for the work that they’re on. And that’s you know, we all say what we say about working our minimum wage jobs as we do growing up. But definitely, I mean, this is somebody’s lifestyle and this is their dream. It’s really hard to see that. So that’s a big part of this as well.

Taylor: Yeah and I think you brought up a really, really good point when you’re talking about, you know, the Brad Pitt’s of the world, the Margot Robbie’s of the world. They are the minority of SAG members. And I think it can be kind of hard, you know, you think of Hollywood, you think of actors and those are the names you think about. The big movie stars, Tom Cruise, the people who are faces of franchises, all of that. But again, those people are not the everyday SAG member. The majority of a lot of SAG members are, you know, your extras or your smaller actors or your TV actors who are maybe not making the big box office numbers. So this is more a fight for the everyday actor just so that they can basically subsist as an actor and not have to work, you know, extra jobs just to make ends meet. I think, you know, everybody out here can sympathize with the fact that the cost of living everywhere is going up. But if you’re looking at, especially as an actor, you’re living in likely Los Angeles, likely New York or somewhere like Atlanta. I can’t speak to Atlanta, but I know that both L.A. and New York, I mean, housing prices are just insane. I live in New York and I can tell you from experience, it is a very, very expensive city to live in. And so if you’re imagining, you know, someone who’s not really making a ton of money on residuals or, you know, as an actor, they’re having to get other jobs. And I think what they’re really fighting for, for the majority of actors who are not or just anyone who’s a part of SAG, you know, they’re fighting for the ability to just have that one job and not really have to, you know, wait tables, bartend, work as a cashier somewhere, just to make ends meet.

Katie: Yeah and I definitely think that’s a big section for the SAG members to look at and what they’re really fighting for. I think going back to the writers, I mean, streaming has changed so much for even writers. I mean, you could have different writers on every episode of a show. And that’s very different than, you know, even ten years ago when you could be a writer that might be signed on to a show for at least a whole season, if not maybe five, you know? You can make a living knowing you’re going to be signed on to a show for five seasons or even one season. I mean, that’s, you know, one show under your belt, a good TV show might have 20-something episodes back before streaming made things a little different in that way. But I think about even friends I mean how many episodes were in one of those seasons? Granted, that’s a show from the late nineties into the early 2000s, but still and so you know big thing there is, there isn’t a lot of guarantee and there isn’t a lot of stability for writers. And I think that’s something for them as well that they want. They don’t want to sit here and write for a show that might only let them write for one episode and they’re gone. I mean, once again, that’s also not a way to make a living.

Taylor: No, totally and I think you bring up another interesting nuance about streaming as well, which is this idea of shows getting canceled one season in, two seasons in. I don’t want to say every show on TV makes it past one season because obviously, they don’t some shows don’t make it past pilots like there are checks and balances for shows that don’t perform. But I would say on the whole, you know, shows did tend to run a few seasons. And I think especially, I know a lot of people complain about this with Netflix, they just kind of cancel willy nilly if it’s not, you know, a Stranger Things if it’s not an Enola Holmes or is Outer Banks Netflix or is that Amazon?

Katie: No, that’s Netflix.

Taylor: Yeah and Outer Banks. Something that’s like really like in the cultural zeitgeist, like people are watching their favorite shows or shows that they really enjoy, you know, get canceled. There’s one that I remember really liking in college that I honestly can’t remember the name now, but it was about time travelers and that only got two seasons. And it really, if I remember correctly, didn’t even wrap up and I was like, wow, they really should have made another season of this and that was really disappointing. But also then you think about that as a writer, you know, even if you are getting a full season contract and you’re going to write, to your point, shorter seasons, so only probably 10 to 12 episodes versus the 20.

Katie: If that.

Taylor: Yeah, yeah. You’re lucky if you get ten, but you know, then you’re like, oh my God, if I don’t hit some threshold that isn’t even public or that I’ll never even understand because nobody really knows how Netflix or any of the other streaming giants, you know, make these decisions. I may just get these six episodes and I better hustle for my next gig because it’s not guaranteed.

And again, it wasn’t guaranteed in TV either, but there was a little bit more security, I think, that you were going to have potentially a renewal of the next season. 

Katie: Yeah and as we said, I mean, even just the length of seasons is such a big difference that while we might not always think about it as people who just, you know, go through that phasing of learning streaming services and we’ve slowly adopted the new ones as they come, and now we just all have a plethora of streaming services. And if you’re anything like me or Taylor, I don’t own cable. Quite frankly, I don’t have a single TV that has cable. I have seven TVs, I have two TVs, but neither have cable on them. I moved and my boyfriend and I both said, why do we need it? Between the two of us, we have pretty much every single streaming service out there. We don’t need cable. There’s no use for it. And so as the times have been moving, you know, we’ve gotten used to, oh, well, Stranger Things has maybe 8 to 10 episodes a season and maybe they’re 45 minutes to an hour and maybe the season finale is an hour and a half, but that’s it. Or I’m a big fan of Cobra Kai, I’m not going to lie. But you know, another great example, they’re not these long seasons like the OGs like Boy Meets World, Full House, all these older shows that just ran for long periods of time. 

Taylor: I mean, think about like a Bridgerton, you know, like I’m a big fan of that series. What is it like maybe ten episodes? Queen Charlotte, which by the way, everybody, that show is fantastic. If you have not seen it, shameless plug because it’s so freaking good. But I think it was only six or seven episodes and I got to episode six and I was screaming at my television when I realized there wasn’t more.

Katie: Yeah, well, and that’s how I mean when we watched Stranger Things, we didn’t watch until the fourth season came out because honestly, I didn’t even know it made it to season four. I remember everyone freaking out about season one, heard nothing about seasons two and three, and then season four, everybody was freaking out about it again. But honestly, we watched it within a couple of weeks because again, there are maybe, if we’re lucky, 40 episodes between four seasons. I mean, that’s insane. 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: I think about even Agents of SHIELD, there are roughly 20 to 23 episodes in the first five seasons, I believe? That’s insane. We don’t get that on streaming, so to think we’re getting less content. Well, the writers and the actors are getting less content to produce.

Taylor: Yeah, it has that trickle effect that you know, as consumers I think we don’t often think about. But, you know, you do have to think about now, especially with all of this conversation, you know, how are these shorter seasons going to affect people’s ability to make money? You know, if you’re on a contract that you were expecting to be 20 episodes and now it’s six, that’s a whole different mindset that you’re going into because you have a lot less job security. So I think that’s something that, you know, as consumers, we just have to be conscious about. Obviously, we’re annoyed, but like, you know, also just being mindful of the people who are creating it. And we don’t unfortunately have a lot of power I think when it comes to streaming, I think these companies are a lot of times run by CEOs and boards who are just going to make these decisions. And so they’re just going to do what they want regardless of kind of what consumers are saying. We’ve talked about the outcry that many people have had on Netflix for some of their favorite shows being canceled after one season and then Netflix doesn’t do anything. So, you know, there’s not a ton that we can do as consumers besides mass canceling your subscription. But just keep in mind, there’s there’s a way to be mindful about what we’re consuming and about how this affects the people who are creating the content that we all know and love.

Katie: Yeah, and I think that’s very well said. I mean, as we’ve been talking about some of these shows, I didn’t even think about it ironically, because we get so caught up in it. But I mean, every Marvel show that’s come out is lucky if we ever saw one with ten episodes. 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katie: And I didn’t even think about it. And I and it’s kind of as you’re saying from the consumer side, you have to remember how many times have we said, you know, this show, six episodes. How are we fitting all this in here? Oh, that show wasn’t well-paced. Oh, well, this, that, and another thing. So I think we are seeing it on the consumer side. The fact that, you know, these smaller shows, these smaller seasons or these smaller one-off shows that maybe never get a second season, such as well, as of right now, well Wandavision I don’t expect to ever see a second season. So I’ll say Wandavision is a good example. 

Taylor: Yeah. We’ve gotten a little past where that could ever happen, I think content-wise.

Katie: Yeah, yeah, I agree. So I’ll use that as a great example. We’ll never see a second season of Wandavision. Was nine episodes of perfection written there? Yes. Listen, I’m not going to lie but I do think we sit here and it’s small things we’re noticing, but you have to think these writers are being forced to tell stories in such short parts. I mean, we’re saying, you know, things aren’t paced right. Well, these writers are sitting here trying to put together a story with such little time. I mean, we are used to 20, at least 13 episodes. And that’s maybe a half-season. And then the show comes back in the fall, you know?

Taylor: Yeah. No, totally.

Katie: Yeah. So, I mean, it definitely it’s interesting and as we’re talking about it, let’s just wrap this right into the MCU, we’re right here already and I’m going to be frank. We’ve got a slate for 2023, for the rest of 2023, the last well, now five months, four and a half months. And so that’s Loki season two, that’s Echo, which will be dropping all at once, and that’s The Marvels.

Taylor: Which I have. I do just want to say I have heard some rumors going around that if the strike persists, they might move The Marvels. Now, one thing that we haven’t talked about as a part of the strike and as a part of SAG’s rules for its members is that they’re not allowed to promote any of their work as part of their being on strike. It’s not just we’re not allowed to be on production and we’re not allowed to be in front of the camera, we’re not allowed to be writing whatever. Well, that’s WGA, but that’s part of it and that’s part of the rules. But so is actually promoting any SAG work. That means no press conferences, no media interviews that are talking about any of their projects, any of that off the table. So if you’re looking at a Marvels in November, I can understand if the strike persists into October, you know why Marvel would say, if we’re not going to be able to do a world tour with all of our stars if we’re not going to be able to do the press junkets, if we’re not going to be able to do you know, any of these media interviews that they’re always doing to drum up excitement for the film, I could see that happening. And I know that’s been something that people have talked about, is potentially the idea of that film being pushed back. They’re obviously not going to push back Loki, that’s too close and they’ve already done so much promotion for it. You know, they keep talking about the date, the date, the date, and they keep giving it. I don’t see that moving. But a theatrical release that has financial implications to the studio, not that the show doesn’t but like it’s just on a different level, you know, ticket sales versus subscribers and viewership on the platform. And so the idea of potentially losing hundreds of millions of dollars if you’re not getting the same amount of ticket sales because you weren’t able to promote the film, well, now you’re hurting the bottom line and that’s why I think potentially the theatrical release could actually end up being moved.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, they wouldn’t have dropped the Loki trailer about two weeks ago if they were going to push it back, especially with the current climate. I mean, you’re aware your writers are on strike, you’re aware your actors are on strike. They wouldn’t have done that if they were planning to push that back. I would say I definitely agree with the statement of I don’t expect if this does persist to see The Marvels this year. I think that’s the only one that I wouldn’t see.

Taylor: I agree. 

Katie: I think they’ll drop Loki. I think they’ll drop Echo. I don’t think we’ll see press tours. I don’t think we’ll see anything of that nature coming from them as long as the strikes persist. But I do worry about The Marvels because it doesn’t have to be this year and something to just pretty much put out there in case this wasn’t made horribly obvious, everything that’s been in production in any way, shape, or form, whether it’s been being written, whether it was being shot, whether it’s in post-production, doesn’t matter. It is not being worked on. So it does not matter if we have an entire 2024 slate. I think the first being Cap 4 as far as theatrical, I think that’s the first one next year. I cannot remember off the top of my head.

Taylor: I believe you’re right.

Katie: Okay. I mean, that’s going to be pushed back. So if The Marvels has to be pushed back, everything else is just going to slide back with it, because it’s not as if these are being worked on at the same time and they’re catching up to where The Marvels is. In fact, everything’s on pause. It’s almost, dare I say it, it’s almost like when we had COVID, everything went on pause. And so everything’s just going to be pushed back and to a point where when the strikes over the contracts are negotiated and everybody is hopefully able to get what they are supposed to get, then everything can resume. But until then, I think we’re going to see things get pushed back. And quite frankly, like I said, that’s everything on the Marvel slate pretty much for 2024, nothing in 2024 was fully done.

Taylor: Yeah, actually that is a great segway into some of the research that I was doing going into this episode. I wanted to look at what has been pushed back and now not all of this is necessarily explicitly pushed back because of the strikes, but I think in my heart of hearts that it had you at least partially, had to do with some of it.

Katie: Agreed.

Taylor: There are some that have explicitly been shut down because of the strikes and then others that I think, you know, there’s just a lot going on. And the strikes probably didn’t help in that sense. But let’s list out these delayed projects and I’m going to link this article below. It’s a great Washington Post article. It was updated when I was reading it, updated July 29th. So it’s relatively recent. I’ll link it below because it also has all kinds of different franchises and other properties besides Marvel. So if, you know, you’re like us and you like other things and you’re interested in other content, definitely check out this article is pretty comprehensive. I’ll link it in the show notes and you guys can check it out. But anyway, back to the list. Captain America: Brave New World got pushed, Avengers Kang Dynasty, we all know it was pushed, Avengers: Secret Wars, Wonder Man the television show, Venom 3, Thunderbolts, Daredevil: Born Again, which I know for a fact, actually was shut down because of the writers strike. They actually kept picketing on set and so they they shut Daredevil: Born Again down. Kraven The Hunter has been moved, as we all know that was supposed to be this October. I believe it actually comes out or is supposed to now come out early next year. If you’re going MCU adjacent, this might be the first movie of 2024 because I remember it being a kind of busy early 2024. Again, all of this is up in the air, but that’s the new date for now. And then I think the one that I might be most disappointed about, Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse. 

Katie: Yeah.

Taylor: Delayed indefinitely. They’re not even putting a date on it, which is just so disheartening considering how much we both loved Across the Spider-Verse. We were really looking forward to the fact that we didn’t have to wait a full year and now we may have to wait the rest of our live long lives. So, you know, unfortunate. And then two works that are not delayed yet, but are likely to be delayed that Washington Post pointed out were Deadpool 3. Obviously, we know we were getting some great stills from the set, some pretty amazing Deadpool content that has now since shut down, of course, and Blade, which has already been pushed. But again, that was in pre-production. The writers are not writing, so that’s going to be pushed back. So likely, you know, it hasn’t been done yet, but I mean, writing’s on the wall here, everybody. So that’s a long, long list. It’s going to affect everything beyond it as well, or we’re going to end up with years that are jam-packed like we did in 21 and 22, though I thought Marvel was trying to avoid that. So, you know, nobody really knows how this is going to shake out. Nobody knows how long this is going to go. And it’s going to be a really interesting couple of years as we deal with the ramifications.

Katie: I mean, like I said, I don’t like comparing it to this, but it really does feel as if we’re back in that COVID era where everything is shut down. I do just want to take a quick second and mention two things, two properties, I’m not sure if you said them, or maybe I just missed them, but I just want to put them out there in case they’re not on your board, but they should be The Thunderbolts. I think that’s the second release, unless there’s a release in between that, and Cap, although those two would go very well together. So I would be totally down if that’s the order. I’m not 100% sure, though. Again, don’t quote me, but at this point, the slates mean nothing because we are expecting these all to be moved. Anything could happen. Pretty much the longer the strikes are going on, the longer we’re going to expect things to be delayed and pushed back. And so I think everything pretty much went on pause when the writers began their pause, which makes sense. I mean, you can’t have any work, the actors can’t do the work if there are no writers writing it. But as the strikes continue, as Taylor mentioned, if this goes on till October or even longer, you know, expect those months to rack up for all of the content as well.

Taylor: Yeah, definitely disappointing. But you know, I think the last thing that I just want to say in relation to this episode is just to echo our support for both the writer’s and the actor’s unions. You know, as disappointing as it is to have the content moved back, it pales in comparison to the need for appropriate wages and people being able to make a living doing what they love. And so I just want to make that super, super, super clear that any disappointment that we’re expressing in this episode is simply related to just like a bummer to not be able to go to the theaters and see what we want or have it on our TVs. But in no way do we blame the unions for simply advocating for what should be a livable wage. So just want to make that again very, very clear. So there is absolutely no confusion about where we stand on this issue. We are 100% for both the WGA and SAG and hope that they are going to do whatever they need to do to get what is appropriate and fair. And if that means striking for the next few months and pushing everything, sad, but Godspeed.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, ditto to everything, Taylor said because I think she said it really well. And honestly, you know, you got to do what you got to do to fight for your rights. I mean, our country is built off that kind of stuff, right? You know, striking is a really important thing. And, you know, they deserve to get everything that they need for their work as anybody does. So we fully support them. We hope that they’re able to negotiate what they need to and have a fair contract brought up eventually. So shout out, not that all the actors and writers are listening to this, but shout out to them.

Taylor: In our heart of hearts, we wish for this to happen.

Katie: Yeah, well, I do truly shout out to them, though, because, you know, it takes a lot to decide to strike. It takes a lot to go up against some big corporations, like some of these streaming services. So, I wish them all the best and I hope that they’re able to do what they got to do.

Taylor: Yeah, couldn’t have said it better myself. That is a wrap on our coverage of the writer’s and actor’s strike. Of course, we will keep updates peppered in throughout future episodes so that if there are any, you know, major movements in any of the negotiations that may affect future MCU shows, movies, or adjustments to any of the slate that gets announced because the strikes have continued, we will work that into every episode of make sure that you guys are 100% kept abreast of all of the updates. So if you’re looking forward to just making sure that you’re, you know, kept up to date, please make sure that you are following, and subscribing on your podcast platform of choice if you haven’t already. Also, definitely make sure to check out the website. We have links to all of our social on there, which is definitely keeping up with everything. So the website’s a great spot, the show’s a great spot and you should definitely bookmark those, subscribe, follow, do all the things and we’ll keep you covered as it relates to all things Hollywood.

Katie: And I’ll piggyback off of that because you should also follow us on Twitter at SisAssembledPod and Instagram and Threads at SistersAssembled to do all the same things Taylor just said, but it’s even more fun because why not? So make sure, I know you guys are out there. I think maybe you’re not on Twitter/X anymore, but I know you’re on Instagram, so make sure you guys are giving us a follow so you can keep up with everything we’re up to. And coming up next week, we are going to be tackling the news of Kamala. Is she a Mutant? Is she Inhuman? No one knows because the MCU is telling us one thing. Comics are switching up on us. So we will be tackling that debate, that question next week. So make sure you guys are sticking around for that because that will be a good one. And in the meantime, keep up with us, keep up with Marvel because Marvel just blew your mind, so let’s talk about it.